glad you responded with disgust, because that was my initial gut reaction too. We are both artists at heart, and I often wonder if we operate differently than most people. I have a healthy appetite for self-preservation, competition and perfection, which does result in rewards, but this level of greed that was displayed, I do wonder: how many whales operate like this? Is it the majority? Do they think that it's going to make Steem more valuable moving forward?
I am at a loss, because I didn't know that the ROI was that extreme for the bot vote buying...
Additionally, their article is a great way to discourage new investors in Steem, new users from joining and current authors. If I was an outsider and this post was the first thing I saw when I visited Steemit, I'd turn around and never look back. :-/ It's potentially an embarrassment that will fuel the fires of mockers and naysayers.
I understand monetary ambitions too, but what's the sense in grabbing all one can in the short term when Steem has so much potential. It's plain short-sighted. The healthier this platform is now, the better off everyone will be in the future, especially large holders of SP...
so you are saying that you want authors to set their own curation rewards? You want them to set it to 60% so you can earn just as much by voting for them as you do with the bot system? Why mention at the end that changing the rewards from 50/50 was bad?
Reducing curation rewards from 50/50 to 25/75 was bad because it created a system where curation was no longer profitable, which is why people started selling their vote instead.
After being on this planet for 34 years, I have come to realize that greed and short-sightedness are traits that the majority of humans seem to be "blessed" with...
As someone who has been on the planet for 60 years, I have seen where there is a direct correlation between how big government and big business make people richer and richer and the number of common people willing to do WHATEVER it takes to get higher up the food chain. People act and react in the same way as their role models and the media has made the rich and famous our role models.
having been blasted through HyperSpace (Thrice) and meeting Goddess(es?) on a couple of those journeys, my epiphany was that these are learned behaviours. These bad traits are most likely holdovers from the times of scarcity.
We have entered an age when abundance should be the fruits we all reap, but we haven't yet matured as a species to realize where we stand. Buckminster Fuller was right, we have the tech to take care of everyone and make sure everyone has what they need.
With all I see going on, I firmly believe that $100 is a low price for STEEM. The SMTs along with apps that basically cover the entire social media spectrum (DTube, Zappl, Steemit, Steepshot) are basically poised to rewrite all the rules as they apply to this arena. One only needs to look at the values given to twitter, FB, Youtube, and instagram (that one sold for $1B) to realize it is a huge market.
The steem blockchain can be one of the first to truly gain worldwide recognition, not because of publicity and hype, but, rather, due to the developments that are taking place on it. These are apps people will use.
@stellabelle Before going around trying to make me look bad you should have realized that my post is a wake up call. I offered a solution which is meant to improve the current situation.
Why do you think I'm calling out the system that I profit from?
Ok, I agree with you. Please tell me how i should edit my post.
I have added your solution to the post, at the bottom.
Wasn't your post meant to get people upset? That's how many of us perceived it. That's how you wrote it... in order to wake up everyone.
i agree with you @stellabelle
his post was offensive...am new on this and am trying to learn more about it and how it works...am also meant to believe that we are here to help each other grow...whales also started as newbies, then minnows and so on. i believe they got to where they are now because of their hard work and other people voted their contents too
However, I am optimistic enough to believe that this is the extreme minority. I know there are a number of people on here with big VP who are helping all they can.
There simply are some people who look at things from the viewpoint of getting all they can while others have the approach "what can I bring".
I hope you're right, @taskmaster4450, I tend to think you are... I suppose I'm passionate about this because I see good people falling away from Steemit fairly regularly. They've told me that it's too hard to keep going, and they've cited circular voting as one of the main reasons they feel shut out.
I think very few of us are making a living from Steemit, and all our efforts aren't going to be rewarded for many months, possibly years. Whales obviously can and will do whatever they want with their VP, but it's chilling to see admission of undervalued posts and then a cold, "**** you, creators" attitude.
I agree. There are times I get de-motivated by the behavior I see on here but then remind myself why I am here and what I am committed to. My goal is to be a poster that makes a difference...to bring areas of knowledge that people who read what I write do not have.
I want to make money like everyone else although I have no complaints about what I have gotten thus far (or at least I should have no complaints).
Thanks you for your kindred spirit of maintaining optimism and that we are bigger than the challenges that are in front of us. If 10,000 people get together and focus on making this place the best if can be, it will create an incredible outcome.
In the overall scheme of things, that isnt that big a number.
I'm really thankful for super dolphins and orca like the @acidyo and the @stellabelle and @pappa-pepper. They certainly help balance some of the lopsidedness that's troubling everyone.
I see what you mean, I'd really like to get my videos in gear, make a splash on youtube and then drive traffic back here consistently.
Wow you're right, 10,000 hyper Steemsters could really rock the show!
That is all we can do...try to drive as much traffic here as we can. I gave the link to someone this morning...I have no idea if she will sign up or not but she was given it and I told her about it. It will not be the last mention from me either.
Well it seems with you and I, we only need 9,998 more. LOL
Yeah it's disgusting, but people join steemit to earn by their own means. But they are not getting what they or their blog worth so they use bots for that.
I am not sure I would use the word " disgusting". He was being "Honest" with the users of steemit on how and why he votes the way he does. I don't think there is such a thing as "Disgusting Honesty". He obviously has a huge amount of respect for the creators of content. I would bet along with the dollar amount of those post, that the number of views,(prior) to him pointing them out was very low also. So while he may have not upvoted the post due to his own financial considerations he did Reward them immensely by bring so much attention to them. (I have not looked or checked to see if that did happen or not)
At first read it is easy to see your point of view of what he said. However on a second read, and reading the clarification comments he made to a few commenters, you may become a little less disgusted, and a little bit more understanding. I view it at a cautionary tale; be careful of where you travel, lest you become like me and sell your soul.
I do appreciate your comment, it helped me to see a little more into @snowflake 's post.
Fight or flight syndrome, it hits and we react. I am sure it was a hard thing for @snowflake to write. And it has gotten even more people talking, and discussing one of the issues that many have here on steemit.
I think it's really sad to sell your votes... because if someone has a certain reputation, whoever they vote on is basically given a "stamp of approval". If the vote was sold to a spammer, that approval can have devastating effects.
My vote isn't big (although bigger than that of many) but I refuse to sell it specifically because I want to know who I upvote and only upvote people who put effort in their posts. This, and only this, helps steemit to grow.
How is this platform supposed to grow if nobody takes it serious?
A whale might earn some additional money by selling votes instead of upvoting content that deserves it but if the platform goes down, they will lose everything.
agreed with you, if every one specially whales thinking like this then after some time that form breakdown very quickly so the seniors should think about that.
You are very right. I think they do not think as they probably have much more important matters to attend. And steemit for them is just a game, though a wise enterpreneur should see to his investment and now it is happening just in the opposite :)
Brilliant, and totally on the money. No pun intended.
It just goes to show that there are two schools of thought here... which is a realization I have slowly been coming to. There are those who see Steemit merely as a giant cash dispenser, and those who see it as a social content platform. You and I happen to be part of the latter...
All that stuff aside though... communities are built by PEOPLE, not by code or bots.
Let's think about that, for a moment. THAT also means that the whales who are into "maximizing their ROI" are also directly sending their long term prospects down the toilet. Why? Because Steemit will never become more than a small niche venue if it's dominated by automation rather than human generated content... which means it will NOT become "the Facebook killer," which in turn means the long term value of the Steem token will be lower than on a site that was organically people driven.
Implication: For the whales who are "cash now" focused... you may earn your $1000 a week NOW, but watch your $800,000 holdings decline 3-4% a month till Steem is worth... about as much as Dogecoin.
Exactly my thoughts on this issue. The value of steem would so drop drastically if this type of issues are dominating. The main reason most people come onboard steemit is the fairness being preached "get rewards for your post". Its discouraging for us minnows to be compelled to use bots to get attention or rewards after going weeks without votes it leaves us little or no choice but then to know these bots are fuelled by greed of some whales is so annoying. Steemit active users are few for this reason : the few rich keeps accumulating money greedily here forgetting this is a social media platform if majority feel sad or cheated the steemit vibe wanes and no new investment comes in and the price of steem crashes what then is the gain?
Please someone give us a better solution then the greedy suggestions of @snowflake.
You are not realizing one thing though.
Steemit was recently made it's own entity.
For the purpose of moving forward with SMTs.
Your post is admirable and would have made sense before the re-branding. However the game has changed dramatically now. Steemit Inc. have realized that the STEEM blockchain and the token is the real value. Not the steemit community. It's hard to swallow for those that are here thinking they found utopia, but truth is truth.
From an investor's perspective, the fact that they have realized the power of their blockchain and token is actually a good thing. If the token remained tied to this platform it would have kept going down. The SMT model now actually gives it new found freedom and possibility. If they roll it out right and successfully sell it to other platforms, the price of the STEEM token will see good growth. I'm not about to throw a lot of money at it but I am doing much research and watching progress closely.
You are right in thinking that there is value in the token existing below $1.00. You are wrong in assuming steemit determines it's future. In all honesty, people should start to see that steemit.com was more or less a test (hence beta). One which will continue to be managed and improved, but it certainly won't be the platform that takes on Facebook and such. Or the perfect alternative. It should be quite clear: You got to pay to win around here.
The blockchain/token phenomena is barely in it's infancy.
The future will give rise to many new platforms. It already is. Appics for instance, has a very noble vision. Indahash, another that (although broken) aims to set the new standard. In time, the place that you describe, and that which is admirably longed for in stellabelle's post - where the BEAST known as GREED is kept safely at the gates - will probably become a reality. That does not yet exist though.
BUT, this is just my opinion. Anyone wanting to reach their own conclusion should do some research. There's always more to a story than what greets you on the surface. Informing yourself is very valuable.
I guess some whales have one thing wrong if they bought steem in hope of earning from upvoting.
Scenario one: Whale bought 500 000 Steem. Steem price is 1 USD. One full upvote 50 USD. They are making 10 full votes a day. They get 125 USD from curation rewards. They make 45k a year from curation. Since they voted other whales or rented it for upvote bots the whole ecosystem does not grow and steem price dropped to 0.75 Value of their assets at the end of the year 545 000 steem = 408 000.
Scenario two: Whale bought 500 000 Steem. Steem price is 1 USD. One full upvote 50 USD. They are making 10 full votes a day. They get 125 USD from curation rewards. They make 45k a year from curation. Since they find time and spend it curating quality content, new talented contributors come to the platform and they bring new people with them, platform grows, demand for steem is increasing. Price rises to 1.25 x 545 000 = 681 250
While there are different other scenarios but this is just to illustrate how everybody would benefit from keeping ecosystem healthy and profitable for everybody.
Exactly. Because noone comes and tells everybody like some dude came to facebook and told everybody how to do it. This is decentralised platform with no leader that act to a loose set of rules and try to play a system finally all they play is themselves. Decentralised blockchain is good - decentralised platform with loose rules not that much it seems.
On the other hand if they had time and conditions to distribute tokens more evenly majority of the problems would be absent. Like EOS are doing their token distribution for a whole year to give everybody a chance to get some. While on steemit too many tokens are concentrated in too few hands why the system fails.
Some are talking about democracy while this is being more of oligarchy. So no wonder that a platform built and suited to work on democratic and liberal setting is failing due to oligarchy power distribution.
I think Apple and others proved how valuable a healthy and growing ecosystem is.
I like you how present these scenarios which spell out the difference in viewpoints I alluded to above. For me, this place is the answer to a lot of injustice that takes place in the world. There are 2B Facebook users (so they claim) who are basically paid nothing for their efforts. The steem blockchain is the first opportunity to get people paid for what they do. That said, it isnt about "gaming" the system so one maximizes his/her profit. Rather, it is about contributing via upvoting, posting, and commenting in an effort to have the entire entity grow.
You see the only way to truly maximise the profit is increasing the price/value of unit. Billion tokens with no value is much less valuable than thousand tokens with a value of 1. And that is where most people fail to see the point.
I doubt it too but i thing the development team abandoned the idea of building steemit as a major platform instead creating SMT that will fuel up many other solutions and apps with Steem as a backbone currency which will rise their price. As for steemit as a platform... i have serious doubts if it will survive the competition as a front end application.
No, model is perfect. You just need to do UI changes. Hide the wallet of the author for example, or hide value of the post which would be only revealed after upvoting it so that your decision is not influenced by the current value of the post. That would have helped a lot if done at the right time. Or most importantly more even token distribution at the distribution stage like they do with EOS. They run distribution for a while year so everybody has a chance to get some.
busy.org which i use too, bescouted.com which we built steepshot.com are just few of many front end applications that will be bulilt and empowered with SMTs. Steem blockchain is an amazing reward distribution mechanism with steemit rather poor front end application implementation with it's known faults. There will be thousands of applications running on it in longer term.
My compliments on steepshot...That is a wonderful app...taking on instagram...very impressive. I wish that the shots (like the zaps) didnt end up in the blog section on steemit. From what I understand, that is something that can only be changed by the steemit developers. If people start sending out 20-40 steepshots a day, the site will get very messy.
I am glad to hear that it is just a UI problem and that you are very fond of the model.
Maybe you can answer this...is SP controlled by steemit or is that a function of the steem blockchain in general?
I fully get and agree with what you are saying here - but its obvious some of the whales do not get this. Maybe I am wrong but many of these people are techie people, not business people, and the same with the witnesses. We need people at the top that understand this and are willing to work towards this
People at the top who build the very Steem blockchain do. I can not tell why those guys who invest heavily do it. Maybe they just do not have time to curate manually. So they just rent it out to bots to keep it spinning.
Another great post on-topic of what people are thinking about 'round here. I'm with you @stellabelle -- i drop my little dolphin hammers on good content and on the people that support me. I easily give away 3x as much as i take via upvoting. Yes i upvote myself -- but i upvote others more!
It is sad that people's greed is more important to them than their integrity and option to really found something good. In this way Steemit is like a microcosm of the world writ large. It may be broken, but it's all we got.
The ironic thing is that this greed flaw could ultimately impact the dark whales the most...
~i'm gonna' get back to snoozing with my baby boy on my chest and listen to the rest of this Willie Nelson album :)
Lead(ing) by example stellabelle! It's all one can do
✨🤘😎✨
Like seriously i will forever remain great full to you @stellballe. I remember when i nock on a door of this particular whale asking for his upvote it's really a bad experience to me, not until i saw a post you made (saying about good communication and relationships is more batter than an upvote ) my mental change and i have to improve on my own quality contains too. Thank for always having minnow in mind @stellballe i will also stand up for you😇🙏🙌 the only i celebrate a whale is by resteem post. This post is resteem @japfive
Oh yeah infact you don't really know what you mean to me. @stellballe and @dragonslayer you both will surely have my support of all time, you made steemit more meaningful to me. High 5🙋 for ur upvote
@stellabelle. I think some people are just greedy and only think of themselves. The earlier people starts to see this whole scenario as our thing and not their thing then will the platform grow to that level we want it to be.
It's a mind set issue.
Thanks for always speaking frankly all the time.
Honestly I am confused on how I feel. I know it felt like a punch in the gut. I know that the negative ramblings of some people that I did not agree with turns out to be true and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Yet the logic behind it is sound. The reason for him is right for him.
A couple weeks back I was feeling a bit down because I was writing content which I believed were good. Not the best but in my writing experience I thought it conveyed my feelings, my thoughts and give people a glimpse of my soul. Yet I was not getting a lot of traffic or comments. I was feeling down and then I come across posts that are just normal selfies or at times fluff articles. Then this was making 5- 20 dollars. So there I was thinking there is something broken in the system but being less than a month I could not pinpoint the problem. We don't want a robot colony yet to replace the citizens.
That post was a Eureka moment for me but also in a way disillusioned me. If I can describe it, I would say it would be at the level of finally realizing that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy does not exist.
Not trying to be melodramatic but I am disillusioned. My mind is troubled.
I have to be thankful to you for giving your sides on how you think. It gives me hope that this can still be saved. That a solution is possible. How you go through it with integrity and passion. Hope for Steemit is alive as long as you are here and supporting good content.
this might help you: it more important to create friendships and connect to those who will ultimately bring about more success to you. Being authentic while connecting is a key..
Experience is the best teacher and I learned it was better to have an authentic and organic relationship with like minded people who gets me.
My first week I followed and upVoted everyone that would leave a message and as that I upVote them as well.
Seems a pretty easy way to earn and get more followers but to connect but it there was a certain feeling doom.
I learned that these kinds of relationships is an easy way to you to know more people. It became a numbers game instead of quality.
I have removed quite a number of people from my list and have concentrated on posts that I live, build relationships and be happy for they joy and melancholy in their sadness.
Well said dear. Just be friendly with everybody and in that way you will know those that are for you in good faith and those that are spamming you. Friendship is key in everything.
I use a hybrid approach: I programmed @personz Fossbot voter and i put authors I like on that list. I don't make much SP from that bot, but I can reward everyone.....
Then on my Stella account i curate organically...
This is interesting. I've been using Streemian to auto-vote on a few favorites, just because I know I may go a day or two offline before I see their posts. But it's not for any kind of ROI. It's because I want them to know they have my (very modest) support.
Now if I'd poured a huge investment into Steem, rather than earning every coin by posting and interacting, maybe I'd feel differently. But I doubt it. Mostly I want to reward the creators I enjoy, because I want to come back to a place that's full of great stuff to read.
I divide my SP about half half between immediate ROI and long term community building (incl. Curation). That sounds annoying, but I do have to make a living too and so if I didn't have income opportunities I'd put that ROI half into stocks or something else.
I don't use autovoting on my main account but i can understand why people do. And I try focus my voting towards minnows where a few cents is actually a helpful morale booster. I'll take a lower immeduate ROI on this aspect of my steem activity in exchange for long-term growth.
I think snowflakes post was meant to make the point that doing the right thing on SteemIt doesn't pay off.
This is true. Doing the right thing does NOTHING except reflecting on one's integrity. If you're poor, you can't feed yourself with integrity. Likewise, if you're wealthy without integrity, your wealth becomes unsustainable.
To act according to one's moral compass and make a living out of it is a fine line to thread on, but certainly not impossible. If one chooses to give up, then is it okay for the world to give up on that one person too?
If the world is made up of many individuals, and every individual can make that decision.. why can't the world?
We all have a choice where to put our energy.
Thus, with great choices come great responsibilities. We can do as we wish, but are we doing so by accepting/ignoring the consequences of our actions that shape the future of our world?
The right thing isn't about making your own decision, but making your own wise decision.
Integrity is key in everything. For example i follow @michelle.gent because I love reading her post and articles. She has been a source of inspiration to me. Though she does not even know who I am but I love what is doing on the platform. Integrity is very important,.
I have some some people on my steemvoter just because I love what they do. People like you, @surpassingggoogle, @michelle.gent, @stach and many others like not because I needed them to respond but because they inspired me all the time and that is my only way of saying thank you. My SP is even small for them to take note , but that does not matter, as long as i love what am doing.
If people can be doing this then we should have a more better platform.
Just saying.....
Edited comment:
Wow, that's (concerning to me). (I would like to see a higher) regard for the creators who are working hard to bring Steemit to the next level!
(In order for a healthier platform with solid future success, I'd like to see some restraint with this type of voting)
glad you responded with disgust, because that was my initial gut reaction too. We are both artists at heart, and I often wonder if we operate differently than most people. I have a healthy appetite for self-preservation, competition and perfection, which does result in rewards, but this level of greed that was displayed, I do wonder: how many whales operate like this? Is it the majority? Do they think that it's going to make Steem more valuable moving forward?
I am at a loss, because I didn't know that the ROI was that extreme for the bot vote buying...
Additionally, their article is a great way to discourage new investors in Steem, new users from joining and current authors. If I was an outsider and this post was the first thing I saw when I visited Steemit, I'd turn around and never look back. :-/ It's potentially an embarrassment that will fuel the fires of mockers and naysayers.
I understand monetary ambitions too, but what's the sense in grabbing all one can in the short term when Steem has so much potential. It's plain short-sighted. The healthier this platform is now, the better off everyone will be in the future, especially large holders of SP...
@snowflake did create the solution at the end which I am trying to fully understand...I'm waiting for him to spell it out for me.
You didn't read my post properly which is why you misinterpreted it. The solution is not to return to 50/50, please re-read my post.
so you are saying that you want authors to set their own curation rewards? You want them to set it to 60% so you can earn just as much by voting for them as you do with the bot system? Why mention at the end that changing the rewards from 50/50 was bad?
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@lexiconical/allow-authors-to-determine-curation-split-and-timing-edit-30-minute-delay
https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/make-curating-great-again
Reducing curation rewards from 50/50 to 25/75 was bad because it created a system where curation was no longer profitable, which is why people started selling their vote instead.
I remember reading @lexiconical 's post. A good idea if this would end upvote bots.
Is there currently a way to set one's own "Curation" reward levels?
After being on this planet for 34 years, I have come to realize that greed and short-sightedness are traits that the majority of humans seem to be "blessed" with...
As someone who has been on the planet for 60 years, I have seen where there is a direct correlation between how big government and big business make people richer and richer and the number of common people willing to do WHATEVER it takes to get higher up the food chain. People act and react in the same way as their role models and the media has made the rich and famous our role models.
This is the sad and unfortunate truth about our so-called "Modern Society".
Yes, I am afraid so.
having been blasted through HyperSpace (Thrice) and meeting Goddess(es?) on a couple of those journeys, my epiphany was that these are learned behaviours. These bad traits are most likely holdovers from the times of scarcity.
We have entered an age when abundance should be the fruits we all reap, but we haven't yet matured as a species to realize where we stand. Buckminster Fuller was right, we have the tech to take care of everyone and make sure everyone has what they need.
Me too. As crazy as it seems, I'm going to buck that trend however I can! XD
That makes two of us :)
Three of us! 😊
I agree.
With all I see going on, I firmly believe that $100 is a low price for STEEM. The SMTs along with apps that basically cover the entire social media spectrum (DTube, Zappl, Steemit, Steepshot) are basically poised to rewrite all the rules as they apply to this arena. One only needs to look at the values given to twitter, FB, Youtube, and instagram (that one sold for $1B) to realize it is a huge market.
The steem blockchain can be one of the first to truly gain worldwide recognition, not because of publicity and hype, but, rather, due to the developments that are taking place on it. These are apps people will use.
@stellabelle Before going around trying to make me look bad you should have realized that my post is a wake up call. I offered a solution which is meant to improve the current situation.
Why do you think I'm calling out the system that I profit from?
I have edited my post. If you find something offensive, let me know. I am very willing to adjust anything that is not accurate.
Ok, I agree with you. Please tell me how i should edit my post.
I have added your solution to the post, at the bottom.
Wasn't your post meant to get people upset? That's how many of us perceived it. That's how you wrote it... in order to wake up everyone.
i agree with you @stellabelle
his post was offensive...am new on this and am trying to learn more about it and how it works...am also meant to believe that we are here to help each other grow...whales also started as newbies, then minnows and so on. i believe they got to where they are now because of their hard work and other people voted their contents too
That is true @overkillcoin, it might.
However, I am optimistic enough to believe that this is the extreme minority. I know there are a number of people on here with big VP who are helping all they can.
There simply are some people who look at things from the viewpoint of getting all they can while others have the approach "what can I bring".
In the end, I have faith in the later group.
I hope you're right, @taskmaster4450, I tend to think you are... I suppose I'm passionate about this because I see good people falling away from Steemit fairly regularly. They've told me that it's too hard to keep going, and they've cited circular voting as one of the main reasons they feel shut out.
I think very few of us are making a living from Steemit, and all our efforts aren't going to be rewarded for many months, possibly years. Whales obviously can and will do whatever they want with their VP, but it's chilling to see admission of undervalued posts and then a cold, "**** you, creators" attitude.
agree.
I agree. There are times I get de-motivated by the behavior I see on here but then remind myself why I am here and what I am committed to. My goal is to be a poster that makes a difference...to bring areas of knowledge that people who read what I write do not have.
I want to make money like everyone else although I have no complaints about what I have gotten thus far (or at least I should have no complaints).
Thanks you for your kindred spirit of maintaining optimism and that we are bigger than the challenges that are in front of us. If 10,000 people get together and focus on making this place the best if can be, it will create an incredible outcome.
In the overall scheme of things, that isnt that big a number.
I'm really thankful for super dolphins and orca like the @acidyo and the @stellabelle and @pappa-pepper. They certainly help balance some of the lopsidedness that's troubling everyone.
I see what you mean, I'd really like to get my videos in gear, make a splash on youtube and then drive traffic back here consistently.
Wow you're right, 10,000 hyper Steemsters could really rock the show!
That is all we can do...try to drive as much traffic here as we can. I gave the link to someone this morning...I have no idea if she will sign up or not but she was given it and I told her about it. It will not be the last mention from me either.
Well it seems with you and I, we only need 9,998 more. LOL
Oh I haven't been that great for Steemit yet, but the intention and potential's there... and I do have things in motion... :D
I am sure you will get there....as you said, intention is a big part of it and you are already starting things in motion.
I believe any effort on here helps...people just need to start increasing their numbers...of posts, comments, and upvotes.
It all builds upon itself.
Yeah it's disgusting, but people join steemit to earn by their own means. But they are not getting what they or their blog worth so they use bots for that.
I am not sure I would use the word " disgusting". He was being "Honest" with the users of steemit on how and why he votes the way he does. I don't think there is such a thing as "Disgusting Honesty". He obviously has a huge amount of respect for the creators of content. I would bet along with the dollar amount of those post, that the number of views,(prior) to him pointing them out was very low also. So while he may have not upvoted the post due to his own financial considerations he did Reward them immensely by bring so much attention to them. (I have not looked or checked to see if that did happen or not)
At first read it is easy to see your point of view of what he said. However on a second read, and reading the clarification comments he made to a few commenters, you may become a little less disgusted, and a little bit more understanding. I view it at a cautionary tale; be careful of where you travel, lest you become like me and sell your soul.
I do appreciate your comment, it helped me to see a little more into @snowflake 's post.
I rephrased my original comment, not to bury it so much as to simmer things down a bit... Thanks @bashadow
Fight or flight syndrome, it hits and we react. I am sure it was a hard thing for @snowflake to write. And it has gotten even more people talking, and discussing one of the issues that many have here on steemit.
@bashadow so maybe this is cathartic in some way, if so, that's a positive. You're right, it's not easy to be open, so hats off to snowflake there...
Better to address things earlier on, right?
Thanks b.a.!
I think it's really sad to sell your votes... because if someone has a certain reputation, whoever they vote on is basically given a "stamp of approval". If the vote was sold to a spammer, that approval can have devastating effects.
My vote isn't big (although bigger than that of many) but I refuse to sell it specifically because I want to know who I upvote and only upvote people who put effort in their posts. This, and only this, helps steemit to grow.
How is this platform supposed to grow if nobody takes it serious?
A whale might earn some additional money by selling votes instead of upvoting content that deserves it but if the platform goes down, they will lose everything.
I wonder if they really think that's worth it ...
please clone yourself. thanks.
I'm trying :P
agreed with you, if every one specially whales thinking like this then after some time that form breakdown very quickly so the seniors should think about that.
You are very right. I think they do not think as they probably have much more important matters to attend. And steemit for them is just a game, though a wise enterpreneur should see to his investment and now it is happening just in the opposite :)
Brilliant, and totally on the money. No pun intended.
It just goes to show that there are two schools of thought here... which is a realization I have slowly been coming to. There are those who see Steemit merely as a giant cash dispenser, and those who see it as a social content platform. You and I happen to be part of the latter...
All that stuff aside though... communities are built by PEOPLE, not by code or bots.
Let's think about that, for a moment. THAT also means that the whales who are into "maximizing their ROI" are also directly sending their long term prospects down the toilet. Why? Because Steemit will never become more than a small niche venue if it's dominated by automation rather than human generated content... which means it will NOT become "the Facebook killer," which in turn means the long term value of the Steem token will be lower than on a site that was organically people driven.
Implication: For the whales who are "cash now" focused... you may earn your $1000 a week NOW, but watch your $800,000 holdings decline 3-4% a month till Steem is worth... about as much as Dogecoin.
Exactly my thoughts on this issue. The value of steem would so drop drastically if this type of issues are dominating. The main reason most people come onboard steemit is the fairness being preached "get rewards for your post". Its discouraging for us minnows to be compelled to use bots to get attention or rewards after going weeks without votes it leaves us little or no choice but then to know these bots are fuelled by greed of some whales is so annoying. Steemit active users are few for this reason : the few rich keeps accumulating money greedily here forgetting this is a social media platform if majority feel sad or cheated the steemit vibe wanes and no new investment comes in and the price of steem crashes what then is the gain?
Please someone give us a better solution then the greedy suggestions of @snowflake.
You are not realizing one thing though.
Steemit was recently made it's own entity.
For the purpose of moving forward with SMTs.
Your post is admirable and would have made sense before the re-branding. However the game has changed dramatically now. Steemit Inc. have realized that the STEEM blockchain and the token is the real value. Not the steemit community. It's hard to swallow for those that are here thinking they found utopia, but truth is truth.
From an investor's perspective, the fact that they have realized the power of their blockchain and token is actually a good thing. If the token remained tied to this platform it would have kept going down. The SMT model now actually gives it new found freedom and possibility. If they roll it out right and successfully sell it to other platforms, the price of the STEEM token will see good growth. I'm not about to throw a lot of money at it but I am doing much research and watching progress closely.
You are right in thinking that there is value in the token existing below $1.00. You are wrong in assuming steemit determines it's future. In all honesty, people should start to see that steemit.com was more or less a test (hence beta). One which will continue to be managed and improved, but it certainly won't be the platform that takes on Facebook and such. Or the perfect alternative. It should be quite clear: You got to pay to win around here.
The blockchain/token phenomena is barely in it's infancy.
The future will give rise to many new platforms. It already is. Appics for instance, has a very noble vision. Indahash, another that (although broken) aims to set the new standard. In time, the place that you describe, and that which is admirably longed for in stellabelle's post - where the BEAST known as GREED is kept safely at the gates - will probably become a reality. That does not yet exist though.
BUT, this is just my opinion. Anyone wanting to reach their own conclusion should do some research. There's always more to a story than what greets you on the surface. Informing yourself is very valuable.
great insight. I would be happy if something really cool was built. I am not picky....as long as my steem investment is not a waste.
My exact thoughts:
You are very well articulated on this matter. I appreciate your insights.
Very well said @reddragonfly!
I guess some whales have one thing wrong if they bought steem in hope of earning from upvoting.
Scenario one: Whale bought 500 000 Steem. Steem price is 1 USD. One full upvote 50 USD. They are making 10 full votes a day. They get 125 USD from curation rewards. They make 45k a year from curation. Since they voted other whales or rented it for upvote bots the whole ecosystem does not grow and steem price dropped to 0.75 Value of their assets at the end of the year 545 000 steem = 408 000.
Scenario two: Whale bought 500 000 Steem. Steem price is 1 USD. One full upvote 50 USD. They are making 10 full votes a day. They get 125 USD from curation rewards. They make 45k a year from curation. Since they find time and spend it curating quality content, new talented contributors come to the platform and they bring new people with them, platform grows, demand for steem is increasing. Price rises to 1.25 x 545 000 = 681 250
While there are different other scenarios but this is just to illustrate how everybody would benefit from keeping ecosystem healthy and profitable for everybody.
there seems to be a huge lack of understanding about how to create value on a social network...
Exactly. Because noone comes and tells everybody like some dude came to facebook and told everybody how to do it. This is decentralised platform with no leader that act to a loose set of rules and try to play a system finally all they play is themselves. Decentralised blockchain is good - decentralised platform with loose rules not that much it seems.
On the other hand if they had time and conditions to distribute tokens more evenly majority of the problems would be absent. Like EOS are doing their token distribution for a whole year to give everybody a chance to get some. While on steemit too many tokens are concentrated in too few hands why the system fails.
Some are talking about democracy while this is being more of oligarchy. So no wonder that a platform built and suited to work on democratic and liberal setting is failing due to oligarchy power distribution.
Thanks for treating us like adults @stellabelle!
I think Apple and others proved how valuable a healthy and growing ecosystem is.
I like you how present these scenarios which spell out the difference in viewpoints I alluded to above. For me, this place is the answer to a lot of injustice that takes place in the world. There are 2B Facebook users (so they claim) who are basically paid nothing for their efforts. The steem blockchain is the first opportunity to get people paid for what they do. That said, it isnt about "gaming" the system so one maximizes his/her profit. Rather, it is about contributing via upvoting, posting, and commenting in an effort to have the entire entity grow.
You see the only way to truly maximise the profit is increasing the price/value of unit. Billion tokens with no value is much less valuable than thousand tokens with a value of 1. And that is where most people fail to see the point.
And the only way I can see to increase the price/value of unit is to have more activity which attracts more people which stimulates more activity.
I doubt that the steem token would be worth under a dollar with 25 times the number of people on here posting, commenting, and upvoting.
I doubt it too but i thing the development team abandoned the idea of building steemit as a major platform instead creating SMT that will fuel up many other solutions and apps with Steem as a backbone currency which will rise their price. As for steemit as a platform... i have serious doubts if it will survive the competition as a front end application.
All valid points.
Do you think that an app like busy.org steps up in its place or is your view the entire model is broken since those apps read the same blockchain?
No, model is perfect. You just need to do UI changes. Hide the wallet of the author for example, or hide value of the post which would be only revealed after upvoting it so that your decision is not influenced by the current value of the post. That would have helped a lot if done at the right time. Or most importantly more even token distribution at the distribution stage like they do with EOS. They run distribution for a while year so everybody has a chance to get some.
busy.org which i use too, bescouted.com which we built steepshot.com are just few of many front end applications that will be bulilt and empowered with SMTs. Steem blockchain is an amazing reward distribution mechanism with steemit rather poor front end application implementation with it's known faults. There will be thousands of applications running on it in longer term.
My compliments on steepshot...That is a wonderful app...taking on instagram...very impressive. I wish that the shots (like the zaps) didnt end up in the blog section on steemit. From what I understand, that is something that can only be changed by the steemit developers. If people start sending out 20-40 steepshots a day, the site will get very messy.
I am glad to hear that it is just a UI problem and that you are very fond of the model.
Maybe you can answer this...is SP controlled by steemit or is that a function of the steem blockchain in general?
I fully get and agree with what you are saying here - but its obvious some of the whales do not get this. Maybe I am wrong but many of these people are techie people, not business people, and the same with the witnesses. We need people at the top that understand this and are willing to work towards this
People at the top who build the very Steem blockchain do. I can not tell why those guys who invest heavily do it. Maybe they just do not have time to curate manually. So they just rent it out to bots to keep it spinning.
well, let's get them (or us) to the top.
Another great post on-topic of what people are thinking about 'round here. I'm with you @stellabelle -- i drop my little dolphin hammers on good content and on the people that support me. I easily give away 3x as much as i take via upvoting. Yes i upvote myself -- but i upvote others more!
It is sad that people's greed is more important to them than their integrity and option to really found something good. In this way Steemit is like a microcosm of the world writ large. It may be broken, but it's all we got.
The ironic thing is that this greed flaw could ultimately impact the dark whales the most...
~i'm gonna' get back to snoozing with my baby boy on my chest and listen to the rest of this Willie Nelson album :)
Lead(ing) by example stellabelle! It's all one can do
✨🤘😎✨
Thank you.
I'm resteeming this out so more people can consider who the fuck they wanna be in this life.
ha ha, that sentence was funny.
Nothing funnier than real life!
👋😜
you finally speak out what i had in mind for some days now, really appreciate this post👍
Like seriously i will forever remain great full to you @stellballe. I remember when i nock on a door of this particular whale asking for his upvote it's really a bad experience to me, not until i saw a post you made (saying about good communication and relationships is more batter than an upvote ) my mental change and i have to improve on my own quality contains too. Thank for always having minnow in mind @stellballe i will also stand up for you😇🙏🙌 the only i celebrate a whale is by resteem post. This post is resteem @japfive
thanks, I appreciate you telling me about how i have helped you. I'm glad it has helped in the long term game.
Oh yeah infact you don't really know what you mean to me. @stellballe and @dragonslayer you both will surely have my support of all time, you made steemit more meaningful to me. High 5🙋 for ur upvote
@stellabelle. I think some people are just greedy and only think of themselves. The earlier people starts to see this whole scenario as our thing and not their thing then will the platform grow to that level we want it to be.
It's a mind set issue.
Thanks for always speaking frankly all the time.
Honestly I am confused on how I feel. I know it felt like a punch in the gut. I know that the negative ramblings of some people that I did not agree with turns out to be true and left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Yet the logic behind it is sound. The reason for him is right for him.
A couple weeks back I was feeling a bit down because I was writing content which I believed were good. Not the best but in my writing experience I thought it conveyed my feelings, my thoughts and give people a glimpse of my soul. Yet I was not getting a lot of traffic or comments. I was feeling down and then I come across posts that are just normal selfies or at times fluff articles. Then this was making 5- 20 dollars. So there I was thinking there is something broken in the system but being less than a month I could not pinpoint the problem. We don't want a robot colony yet to replace the citizens.
That post was a Eureka moment for me but also in a way disillusioned me. If I can describe it, I would say it would be at the level of finally realizing that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy does not exist.
Not trying to be melodramatic but I am disillusioned. My mind is troubled.
I have to be thankful to you for giving your sides on how you think. It gives me hope that this can still be saved. That a solution is possible. How you go through it with integrity and passion. Hope for Steemit is alive as long as you are here and supporting good content.
I wish that I will be fine.
this might help you: it more important to create friendships and connect to those who will ultimately bring about more success to you. Being authentic while connecting is a key..
Experience is the best teacher and I learned it was better to have an authentic and organic relationship with like minded people who gets me.
My first week I followed and upVoted everyone that would leave a message and as that I upVote them as well.
Seems a pretty easy way to earn and get more followers but to connect but it there was a certain feeling doom.
I learned that these kinds of relationships is an easy way to you to know more people. It became a numbers game instead of quality.
I have removed quite a number of people from my list and have concentrated on posts that I live, build relationships and be happy for they joy and melancholy in their sadness.
Well said dear. Just be friendly with everybody and in that way you will know those that are for you in good faith and those that are spamming you. Friendship is key in everything.
I think snowflakes post was meant to make the point that doing the right thing on SteemIt doesn't pay off.
I don't use any bots, never have. If I vote for it, I read it.
If I find an article I like I upvote it regardless of timing.
I try to avoid voting for trending authors.
I vote for comments and lift up minnows.
Nobody cares. More and more often I consider signing up for bots, participate less and earn more... Why not?
I use a hybrid approach: I programmed @personz Fossbot voter and i put authors I like on that list. I don't make much SP from that bot, but I can reward everyone.....
Then on my Stella account i curate organically...
This is interesting. I've been using Streemian to auto-vote on a few favorites, just because I know I may go a day or two offline before I see their posts. But it's not for any kind of ROI. It's because I want them to know they have my (very modest) support.
Now if I'd poured a huge investment into Steem, rather than earning every coin by posting and interacting, maybe I'd feel differently. But I doubt it. Mostly I want to reward the creators I enjoy, because I want to come back to a place that's full of great stuff to read.
I divide my SP about half half between immediate ROI and long term community building (incl. Curation). That sounds annoying, but I do have to make a living too and so if I didn't have income opportunities I'd put that ROI half into stocks or something else.
I don't use autovoting on my main account but i can understand why people do. And I try focus my voting towards minnows where a few cents is actually a helpful morale booster. I'll take a lower immeduate ROI on this aspect of my steem activity in exchange for long-term growth.
Because of being shortsighted. They will not earn more. Yes they will have more steem tokens maybe that will be worth shit.
@whatsup
This is true. Doing the right thing does NOTHING except reflecting on one's integrity. If you're poor, you can't feed yourself with integrity. Likewise, if you're wealthy without integrity, your wealth becomes unsustainable.
To act according to one's moral compass and make a living out of it is a fine line to thread on, but certainly not impossible. If one chooses to give up, then is it okay for the world to give up on that one person too?
I didn't know the world could make that type of decision. We all have a choice where to put our energy. Everyone's choices are different.
If the world is made up of many individuals, and every individual can make that decision.. why can't the world?
Thus, with great choices come great responsibilities. We can do as we wish, but are we doing so by accepting/ignoring the consequences of our actions that shape the future of our world?
The right thing isn't about making your own decision, but making your own wise decision.
Great post
This is my favourite line:
"I could lose all my money at any time, but I could rebuild my wealth if my integrity is intact. If I lose my reputation and my money, I'm fucked"
So much dodgy voting going on...
Holy Fuck! This was hilarious to find! I am a freak magnet....every day.
Integrity is key in everything. For example i follow @michelle.gent because I love reading her post and articles. She has been a source of inspiration to me. Though she does not even know who I am but I love what is doing on the platform. Integrity is very important,.
I have some some people on my steemvoter just because I love what they do. People like you, @surpassingggoogle, @michelle.gent, @stach and many others like not because I needed them to respond but because they inspired me all the time and that is my only way of saying thank you. My SP is even small for them to take note , but that does not matter, as long as i love what am doing.
If people can be doing this then we should have a more better platform.
Just saying.....
DAFUQ! LOL