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RE: Progress being made
I understand that a lot of people want a compromise to be found asap. I respectfully disagree, for my part I'm happy that our representatives don't give in with promises they are not authorized to give.
For me personally, the only way forward is giving control of the chain back and acknowledging that the funds are not his personal property. And a lot of the other big stakeholders see it the same way.
I belong to the group of people who first like to explore if a win/win is possible by means of acting professional, approach TRON with a business mind, stop bitching and hate speak. If we can't come to an agreement, we can always take more drastic steps.
Bit off topic but still: Interestingly, the large stakeholder will only have real value in hand, as long as many small stakeholders are part of the community. For small stakeholders it is much easier to step away from whatever service on the Steem blockchain, and start spending their time somewhere else. Every large stakeholder shall keep that in mind. The community is build by the small stakeholders, while the large stakeholders benefit from what the small stakeholders are building. Surely I paint it all a bit black/white while the world is always grey, but I simply like to point out the other problems we have, and the only way to survive and grow is for all community members to be involved together in one or the other way and everybody is willing to support decisions that is good for all of us and stay away from personal reasons.
This also applies to what deal we shall make with TRON! The small stakeholders opinions shall be taken into account as well, even when they may be different to the views of the large stakeholders.
Of course all voices have to be heard. I didn't see feasible suggestions for win-win scenarios yet though. As long as Tron doesn't accept the sovereignty of the community I don't see anything we can offer. When they do that, a discussion in the community can start. But right now we can only wait and see if he is willing to compromise on the stance that it is his personal stake.
I think we know too little about what TRON is willing to do, before we can even discuss a good win/win agreement. Details matter when we want to seek common ground. I think we shall sit at the table with TRON (maybe Roy, not Justin) and play a lot of 'What If' scenarios, or at least let TRON inform us their position when we take such and such position; For many different scenarios. Sure, nothing agreed at the table. Discussions at home with the rest, the Steem community to see what their opinions are, and then next round, same thing, more talks, more What Ifs, back to community and so on and so fort, until we can make an agreement, or we decide to walk away.
All this can start before TRON takes an action wrt Steemit Inc owned Steem stake. Sure, it would be nice if TRON beforehand states it'll not sell it, but I don't think they will do that. If I was TRON CEO, I wouldn't give up this major card in hand that easy. He may think: Steem community has more to loose than TRON and him personally. And I think that may be right so.
I personally think that what @pharesim proposed or some variant of it is very much win-win, as I pointed out in my own reply.
Once the ninja-mined stake (which I point out elsewhere, he paid very little for anyway) is redevoted to ecosystem development and taken off the table, a few things happen:
Rather, by focusing narrowly on the stake (even to the extent of lying to exchanges in order to trick them into helping him remove it, before even seeking to engage with witnesses or stakeholders on the matter, or responding to communications) is:
It isn't too late for a different course, but every day that goes by with the present "our funds" approach, more damage is being done to everyone (lose-lose).
I would agree on that point. As a large-ish stakeholder I have large votes when it comes to that but I also seek to listen and learn from everyone regardless of stake. Mostly in these discussions I don't pay any attention to it.
I've seen numbers going around of 350k Dollar to 10M US Dollar TRON Foundation paid for Steemit Inc. I have no clue if one of these numbers are close to the truth. If it is to the higher end of this range, than I can imagine cash flow is an topic for TRON/Justin. Cash flow is the most important element of running a business. With all the funds in SPS, their is no cash flow other than whatever is released each time period to fund the activities of Steem Ecosystem development, the tasks executed by Steemit inc in last 4 to 5 years. If cash flow is one of the primary reasons for Justin to want to sell (part of) the Steemit Inc stake asap, then we may be able to work this into a deal/agreement. In my view, nothing is black/white, and I can';t imagine this to be the case for our witnesses and higher SP holders as well. To form an agreement, we need to talks, the right topics discussed, not only high level, but in-depth. This can only be done when both parties are willing to do so. I would like to see the Steem community to take this onboard, start to talk indepth sitting at the table with TRON. If need be meet eachother in person. Nothing shall be agreed at the table, as usually in business, just explore a whole set of possible solutions, understand the true drivers of the other party, discover where there is room to move closer together. The 'What If' shall be played for many different 'What If's'.
All this can happen while we are in the situation today. We dont need an action from Justin/TRONs side, nor we need one from our side.
Sure, Justin made various remarks and wrote various posts he never should've done. Totally not business-like; Full of emotions, Agitating the other party a lot. But Roy seems to be much calmer and therefore easier to talk with staying civil. Maybe we shall address Roy, sit with him at the table. Leave Justin out of the sessions.
And sure, when we dont progress, Justin may incur losses, but we as a community do so as well: loose-loose as you stated. I can't imagine Justin would go for the loose-loose, but then again, he is a business person driven by emotions, hence he can make unexpected moves imho. Could for instance walk away from Steem and Steemit Inc. If that is a loss; I do think so, since the chance Steemit Inc goes belly up is not unreal. And even when Steemit Inc can progress, with the little developers they have of which the main once stepped away, will we be delivered what we need in time before Steem is becoming irrelevant.
Cool: KUDOS! :)