RE: Two proposed HF policy change for countering reward based abuses.
I agree with the first idea, as unpopular as it may be with some of our new arrivals. There is a legit use for self-voting comments for visibility (eg when you want to speak with authority on a post relating to you or your business) , but you shouldn't be rewarding yourself with $ in this case.
I also think a variation on your second idea would be worth doing - there is a real mental, social and monetary cost to policing the reward pool abuse and some tweaking is needed here to make it more appealing.
We need to be very careful tweaking that area though, if it becomes far easier to have a larger total influence on the pool as a flagger then we're going to see way too much of it :o/
I wish I had something smarter to contribute to this, I'm resteeming and hope it generates some good discussion
The problem is again: either all vests are equal or they are not. There are not many safe ways to counter this "self voting". You can always delegate power to another account. It can never be detected. Period.
The only thing you can do with respect to self voting is flagging. Although a flag is only warranted in the same case as before - when a post is making more than it is worth. If someone self-votes their post to 50 cents, and that post goes on to make 10 dollars, there was clearly not a problem with the self vote.
The fall to Nash is futile.
I'm doing work with the steem blockchain API, although haven't been for long. Surely SP delegation operations are traceable in the blockchain? I must admit I haven't actually seen any yet, but I haven't been looking.
They are iirc.
That does not stop someone from having anonymous accounts do their work. Delegation smart contracts could provide this as a service. There is always a way to self vote with vests you own. - unless not all vests are worth the same.
There is no way to detect or prevent self votes. Period.
I agree with you I'm similarly worried about making it more than 50%, I feel like 25% makes it completely fair while anything above account for both a positive incentive and offset the negative cost of retaliation and impossibly to get kickbacks. (example of a kickback, @JerryBanfield randomly sent me 20 SBD for upvoting some of his posts.)
Yeah changing the balance of incentives is very dangerous.
Indeed, giving power to people to police content is more self sustainable rather than having to rely on guilds.
I see this as mostly hurting minnows. Meanwhile, those that can afford to buy more accounts and use those accounts to upvote themselves will keep doing that. My only solution is refunding a portion of the voting power IF the flag could be automatic verified as being legitimate. If they could do that then we would not be seeing the kind of abuse that goes on with flagging.
There will always be sockpuppet accounts and ways around these things, but the tools to detect them get more advanced by the day.
This would immediately stop incentivizing ta good chunk of the self comment voting "abuse".
Interesting idea about refunding VP, but deciding which flags are "legitimate" becomes a whole other problem in itself :P
Yep, I wish I could solve that part for you guys. I would not even trust the plagiarism bots with the refunding as they don’t get it correct enough. I first thought maybe trusting the top Witness but then that just creates a whole other mess for you guys to deal.
There is a reason that upvoting your own posts is the default.
It's not anymore.
seems to be for me.
steemit inc. implementation
It was changed 12 days ago, heres the patch for steemit/condensor : https://github.com/steemit/condenser/commit/cefc5b37161f6012abcb928bc532a5350d3ee141
lol well, I won't be patching that lmao...
Lucky steemit inc has a team thats done it for you already then ;)
haha lucky I use busy.
I don't really support much steemit inc.
Won't that fix just push people into vote trading, or taking two minutes to make an alt account, either to post from and upvote to, or to transfer to and upvote from? Or delegation? Does it not just push the rewards from abuse into the more determined and tech-savvy abusers, an even worse scenario?
I talk about a lot of this in my post inspired by this thread:
https://steemit.com/steem/@kyle.anderson/subjective-proof-of-work-some-rational-comments-on-the-self-voting-trend
The whitepaper is pretty clear about abuse.