This is a super important post, even if only to have a voice of reason in the mix. It's astounding the degree to which anti-science material gets posted on this medium - sometimes even in the "science" tab!
I've been here about two weeks and I've already seen $200+ dollar posts on topics including alien abductions, climate change denial and, of course, anti-vaxxer material.
The climate change deniers I can understand a little. They are being told something is happening, but it isn't having a huge effect on many of their day to day lives yet, and many of them rely on industries which would/will be disrupted by a global shift away from fossil fuels. In general that is going to be a painful transition for most, and insofar as people hate personal suffering, I get why they might turn to wishful thinking on the topic.
But anti-vaxxers upset me more than anything. Not only does their opinion endanger rational, vaccinated people by disrupting herd immunity, but anti-vaxxers make their decisions based on pure ignorance "empirically proven" by word of mouth conspiracy theories.
Anti-Vaxxers ignore, completely, the greatest body of living proof anyone could possibly ask for - their own un-mutilated, un-crippled, un-scarred, disease free bodies, in numbers heretofore unheard of in human history. And in the face of this continuing miracle, they willfully chose to take on an "alternative narrative" which endangers children and the elderly the most.
As I said, I'm new here, and my feed is still developing into its perfect self. I'm happy to add you onto it.
This might be the most uninformed, full of fallacies, comment I've ever read.
Mine or tommy's?
tommy is among the more level headed people on Steemit.
Half of your comment is name calling, or ad hominem, the other half is one sort of appeal to fallacy or another. You give no evidence for why calling people names is proof of you being right.
Anti-science, climate change denier, anti-vaxx, wishful thinkers, and people who make decisions based on conspiracy theories, none of this is shown to be true with any evidence, only your word that you have any idea what you are talking about.
Where do I start? Climate change is real, humans didn't do it.
Vaccines are archaic, we don't need their unpredictable results. Herd immunity has been demonstrated to not work, time and again, by outbreaks that spread among vaccinated people. Your accusation of 'anti-vaxxers' endangering anyone is based on nothing.
I have zero evidence that aliens exist. If they do, I don't think they're in the neighborhood.
I'd be willing to discuss any of this with you provided the name calling stops. It's boring, and it's not an argument.
I think it's important to have a dialogue - but I get the sense this one is going to be detailed - which I would like. I think you've taken umbrage with the characterization by me of large swaths of individuals as "anti-vaxxers" and "climate change deniers" I'm assuming that's what you mean by name calling, and if so, I apologize if it was offensive in any way.
As for a substantive conversation - let's put that on hold until post 4th of July - I've got a long drive tomorrow morning and need to get to sleep. But again, I am not shirking from the conversation - I think it's important to try to have it.
Which science experiment has any validity without a control group? How would we know if or how well vaccines work if we are forcing people to vaccinate? Shouldn't we clear a couple of islands and let people go unvaccinated through generations there so that we can really talk about the impact of vaccines?
The control group is a number of unvaccinated populations in "third world" countries over the last sixty years - those are the populations where polio lingered, and years ago where smallpox still existed. These "control" groups suffered intensely for the lack of vaccines and, at the time, when they were dying of polio or small pox while it was eradicated around the rest of the world, I'm sure people took the time to compare.
I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. I come from a third world country and I was forced to vaccinate, everyone I know was forced to vaccinate.
Well, as far as smallpox is concerned, you would not have been exposed to the risk unless you were born before 1977 when the last recorded case was seen in Somalia.
As of 2017, because of mass vaccination, the only four places where there is even a tiny amount of polio are Afghanistan, Pakistan, the DRC and Syria.
But, if you want to go through the decline of polio to near zero in the last 15 years thanks to mass vaccinations, check out this resource from WHO
So you really think it's safe not to have control groups? What kind of science is that?
Of course not - new vaccines obviously go through rigorous clinical testing before being allowed on the market. This would include use of all appropriate clinical processes, including controls.
My point to you before was only to show that the efficacy of vaccination as a tool for the prevention of certain diseases is proven, utterly and completely, by the literal eradication of several terrible diseases in the real world. And, during the process of those diseases being eliminated by use of vaccination, there were portions of the population on earth who did not get the vaccinations first and who therefore became a point of reference to compare the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world.
Temporary control groups that is, we need to know what the difference is over generations.
But we've had vaccinations for generations already - and the overwhelming majority of people who have been vaccinated experience no negative effects, either short, mid or long term.
There are several myths about vaccines causing various disorders or diseases - primarily autism - but they have been debunked.: and here: and here
But, let me plays devils advocate for a moment. Let's say that tomorrow it was proven that vaccines did in fact increase the overall incidence of autism in children. The alternative is that smallpox and polio still exist - or that measles, and whooping cough still kill infants and toddlers - not to mention the wide variety of diseases rarely seen anymore thanks to widespread vaccination.
But as I've said, autism is not caused by vaccines - nor are almost any major maladies in the great majority of people.