"Nice Guy" Jesus: Is the Love of the Biblical God Really Unconditional?

in #religion7 years ago (edited)

There's a phenomenon being widely discussed right now: The "nice guy". Note the quotation marks. It's someone who presents himself as a gentleman who is respectful to women, but the microsecond after he's rejected, suddenly the mask comes off and the claws come out. He reveals himself as a vicious person who was only feigning kindness while it was useful to him.

Often they also bitterly postulate that women reject them for being so nice because women foolishly chase after exciting "bad boys" who will only mistreat them. It's supposed that these women "deserve what they get" for having chosen wrong. This alleviates the ego injury of rejection by blaming women for it, instead of the "nice guy"s many shortcomings.

Here's an example of one in the wild.

Note how his tone changes abruptly, back and forth, depending on whether he thinks he's been rejected yet. Mask on, mask off, mask on, mask off. Most of us realize how pathological this is, to pretend to be gentle and kind only to attract women, when really all it takes to turn that guy into a savage is an expression of romantic disinterest.

This is not the behavior of a genuinely kind person. Not if that kindness immediately evaporates, replaced by vicious rage if the other party does not reciprocate his feelings. Note also that he blames the girl for "making him go off on her", as if she should feel bad for blowing his cover.

Now, let's try something:

Do you see what I did there? It's the exact same dynamic, isn't it? Love Jesus, go to Heaven, where infinite happiness and pleasure awaits you. Reject Jesus, and go to Hell, an eternal torture pit of untold horrors. Quite the bipolar dichotomy, isn't it? Extreme pleasure or extreme pain, dependent entirely on whether you return Jesus' love.

Is that healthy? Is that what a genuinely loving person does, torturing forever anybody who rejects him? It would make some degree of sense if Hell were reserved only for murderers, rapists and so on. People who were cruel and violent in life. But salvation does not hinge on works. It hinges on belief.

It is said that works are important anyway, by all denominations, but that you ultimately can't get into Heaven unless you're a believing Christian. That's the crux of it all. The important thing in Christianity is not being a good person, it's being Christian. Usually a very specific denomination too, which one depends on who you ask.

Apologetics defending this arrangement often suggest that Yahweh does not send anybody to Hell. Rather, they choose Hell by rejecting his son. But this is identical reasoning to when the guy in the first pic blamed the girl for "making him go off on her". It's like pointing a gun at somebody and saying they are choosing to be shot if they don't give you their wallet.

Likewise, Satan is the equivalent of the exciting "bad boy" in this metaphor, which apostates are imagined to have foolishly chosen over Jesus, the 'nice guy'. It's then supposed that they deserve eternal torture for having chosen wrong.

Is this ethically sound? Does it make sense to pledge your love to somebody who will torture you if you don't? Is that really a healthy relationship, or Stockholm syndrome? Food for thought.


Stay Cozy!

Sort:  

Well... the first one is a complete pathetic retard degenerate, not much to say.
Still laughing at the second one lol, that was good one lol

Well for something invented some 2000 years ago in order to teach people common sense and to fear some kind of a "punishment" in the absence of law, religion has quite a lot of flaws in the present days.. Now I probably stepped on religious people's toes but I can't really find proof of a 2000 year old zombie jew that would punish me if I don't give him my unconditional love... So I think of it in a way that can be explained. :)

fuck you white trump

This part killed me. Haha... was it the first time he ever got rejected?

This post has me shooketh.

If you refresh the page, I added a section about how Satan correlates to the "bad boy" element of the nice guy mythology

Likewise, Satan is the equivalent of the exciting "bad boy" in this metaphor, which apostates are imagined to have foolishly chosen over Jesus, the 'nice guy'. It's then supposed that they deserve eternal torture for having chosen wrong.

LOL.

Have always said "Love me or else," isn't love, it's enslavement. In the bible it's good and right to be afraid of God, who claims to love us. Fear shouldn't be a part of the equation.

Indeed. And obedience isn't morality, either.

get-thee-behind-me-satan-mathew-16023-9446891.png
Source Matthew 16:23

That's what I tell the girls who get in the way of destiny. WWJD.

Even when someone is in rage or anger , treat them with kindness , it always shuts them up

Really cool, you venture into religion tonight.

I'm borderline obsessed with the /r/niceguys subreddit. It's a familiar experience being on the receiving end of Nice Guy nonsense and it's nice to actually be able to laugh about it and flip the script. These days, I don't get it with the same frequency, but I've still had a few gems in the past year. It's definitely not a new phenomenon; just one that has come out of the shadows now that our culture is cool with actually talking about abuse and harassment toward women without like, blaming us for it.

This is a major problem that I have with Christianity as well. As I'm sure you know by now, I'm not religious, but if I were to be religious, I don't see how any loving god would condemn people for not believing in them when they're giving us zero actual evidence that they exist. The Jewish version of God is pretty sadistic, though, which makes him pretty hard to love. And I mean, isn't it all kind of arrogant? Does God really have such low self esteem that s/he has to be validated like that?

"I don't see how any loving god would condemn people for not believing in them when they're giving us zero actual evidence that they exist"

Indeed, though it makes perfect sense if the real point of such teachings is to make members afraid to doubt. Heaven and Hell is the ultimate expression of the carrot and stick, good cop/bad cop method of persuasion. There doesn't even have to be a real carrot and stick, you're just psyching 'em out.

You might get a kick out of these:

Don't Get Tricked, Bro: How to Recognize a Cult
Diagram of a Memetic Virus
Jesus Predicted a First Century Return Which Did Not Occur
Evolution, Creationism and Flat Earth Cosmology
Is Evolution Really Compatible With Christianity?
To Christians Who Accept Evolution: Is Nature Obviously the Work of an Intelligent Designer? The Authors of the Bible Apparently Thought So.
What the Heck are 'Abiogenesis' and 'Prebiotic Evolution'? How Much is Known About the Origins of Life?
What Even is Evolution by Natural Selection, Anyway? A Beginner's Guide
Substance Dualism: The Creationism of the 21st Century

"The Jewish version of God is pretty sadistic, though, which makes him pretty hard to love. And I mean, isn't it all kind of arrogant? Does God really have such low self esteem that s/he has to be validated like that?"

Indeed. As you know I'm not an atheist, strictly speaking, but find it absurd that the supreme being would be male, one of the human sexes. Are there no aliens? Or are they all male and female, like humans? Does Yahweh have a penis? Y chromosome?

Why does a dispassionate cosmic entity enjoy the aroma of burnt animal offerings? Or revile women on their period, homosexuality, etc.? Why would it command slaves to obey their masters, children to obey their fathers under penalty of death, and women to remain silent and obedient?

These sound pretty suspiciously like what fathers living in that time period liked and disliked. Like Yahweh is a big scary puppet they invented to terrify everybody else into living in a way they found pleasing.

It's very convenient, isn't it, that God's laws would all serve to disproportionately benefit men by making everyone else subservient to them?

On the note about sadistic godly behavior, I went to synagogue with my mother a couple weekends ago, and I was making good use of my boredom by practicing reading Hebrew, as I haven't done in years, and taking a look at those hymns' translations. It was all like, I WILL GIVE ALL OF YOU TO YOUR ENEMIES IF YOU DISOBEY ME [INSERT GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF YOUR PERSONAL RUIN] interspersed with little stanzas about loving your God as your eternal father blah blah blah. And I'm like, really? I find it damn near impossible to love a god that would torture me for eating shrimp or breaking any other of the 600+ mostly arbitrary and ridiculous rules that make up the Torah (which super religious people enforce in part and then ignore when convenient for them). At least Judaism isn't big on damning people to hell; God is more into making your current life hell.

Also, as for the whole male supremacy/Judeo-Christian religion thing, it also seems pretty typical to me that men would create a god who seems to be easily enraged and irrational, and flips out over basically nothing in what appears to be a testosterone-induced rage. If women had created Judaism and Christianity, God wouldn't act like such a Nice Guy and would be way more loving and chill about things. But, you know, in our culture, women are the irrational ones.

I haven't delved into /r/nicegirls too much because I assumed the comments would make me want to lobotomize myself, because it would probably just be ammunition for the incels to show everyone how women are even more abusive than men (or something). But reading the sidebar it looks like the mods ain't about that BS.

because it would probably just be ammunition for the incels

Is /r/niceguys not also ammunition for a certain crowd?

Without stepping too deeply into debates about misogyny and the concept of misandry and how much that's a problem, I'd say it's akin to the question of whether or not "reverse racism" exists.

Sexual and physical violence against women and verbal abuse are problems that almost all women experience at some point, and being berated for politely turning down someone's sexual advances, which is obviously a human right, is a common experience. It helps a lot to be able to laugh at it and share it rather than just cower in fear that someone you know at work or at school is going to come after you for having threatened their masculinity. Many incels literally believe in condemning women to sexual slavery and punishing women who are not monogamous because they think it is a grave injustice to them that women are permitted to reject them sexually. The fact that there are some women out there who act irrationally in that /r/nicegirls kinda way is a good way to bolster that myth that all women are monsters who deserve to be sexually abused. I know that there are women who hit their partners or pressure their partners to have sex, and there are some who act badly (or even horrifically) if they are turned down, and those things are all wrong that certainly deserve to be addressed. Is it a universally experienced phenomenon that men suffer? Are there an enormous amount of men out there who fear that their partner or their stalker will one day kill them? Are these big societal issues that have to be faced head on for everyone to see so people will finally stop doubting the victims of it? I don't think Incels and feminists who take things farther than I agree with are at all two sides of the same coin.

I'd say it's akin to the question of whether or not "reverse racism" exists.

Indeed. Racism is racism. There is no special category of it. Likewise, there are people who misbehave when rejected from all walks of life, men and women.

Is it a universally experienced phenomenon that men suffer?

Yes. Probably this surprises you, but you're not a man. You don't experience what women can be like to men when they feel rejected.

Likewise it was difficult for me to understand the frequency with which women experience it until browsing /r/niceguys because as a man, I don't see/experience that behavior from other men like women do.

I don't think Incels and feminists who take things farther than I agree with are at all two sides of the same coin.

Then you have a very slanted perspective on this issue, which your post reads like an elaborate justification for. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

FB_IMG_15271845676654232.jpg

This is really a very interesting topic. I mean mainly that it corresponds to many philosophical figures that the churches themselves despise because most Christians do not understand them and therefore do not care. There are Christians who are unable to question their own faiths. And that's pretty bad. It means that that faith is only a cultural heritage, and that they were born with another, they would not be Christians.

But entering the subject, "unconditional love" is what makes Christianity really sell. I personally see God as an entity that does not care about good or evil, or what they represent. After all, there are evils within goodness, and goodness within evil itself.

Bad things happen to us because God is really indifferent. He knows all the infinite possibilities of each of our possible choices. Knowing all that. What empathy can you feel for each living being?

Interesting! I have a similar perspective, as a naturalistic pantheist. God being all living things means that when one person attacks another, God is both the aggressor and the victim. Some would say it's a confusing, alien notion that God should embody both the best and worst of all things in existence simultaneously because the popular imagining of God is a solely benevolent being.

But if that were true, God would be incomplete, lacking malice. A God which is maximally good and bad baffles many, because why worship such a being? But then again, why would a supreme being demand worship? Why would it even desire such a thing?

I think of religious worship towards God as in a trap of the churches. The worship of God should not be blind or full of chants but should be totally silent. Silent is a sacred but also aristocratic characteristic. For something God does not speak. And if he did, it was through his supposed son, Jesus.

Dr. Manhattan is a puppet of his indifference, the result of his intelligence. A God who does not intervene or does not intervene, does a lot.

One that has the power to dismantle all the weapons of the world to avoid wars, or simply not to do so by understanding human nature.
Dr. Manhattan represents the missing link between God and man. We can not understand God in its full dimension, but we can understand a little to that blue human who looks like him. Then we understand that the extrapolation of indifference is simply being.
From there, to pantheism there are few steps. Moreover, the silence and distance of God is understood, as if even God were the existence itself and nothing else.

It can be freedom, or it can be slavery.

"You can fight a lot with God if you do it with a pure spirit of seeking the truth (...). Whoever looks away from Him to go in the direction of truth, will not go far before He falls into His arms. "
Simone Weil

Now the man full of faith is also very interesting. Especially when faith trembles and contradicts itself

Fascinating insights. Have a follow.

Thanks Alex. This was a very good subject to discuss. Surely there will be others in the future. See you.