RE: LSD's Effects on Relevance and Meaning Depends on Serotonin Receptor
Why should we expect anything? On what basis?
On the basis of thought and reason? On empirical evidence?
All that I know, in my inescapable experience of myself (subjective experience) is an endless echo of reactions (causes and effects) between sensation, observation, and recollection, which is just more echos - everything is experienced in my mind and body. I know not whether there is really an "inside" or an "outside" to myself. I assume there is because there are very different experiences of sensation when I apparently "move" towards a water source than to a lava source. But I can't be sure that the water and lava, with their very different effects on my senses, are any different than the fairies and demons within my dreams, which are only separated by thought, not physical distance, even though they appear to take time and space to reach.
You tell me that there's only one dream state and it's opposite, the "awake state", but I'm not so sure, not so much so that I'd bet my life on it, anyway. Why can't there be dreams within dreams? Why not infinitely so? There may be no limits to how many dimensions (depths) of dream states that consciousness can achieve.
As I see it, it's equally ludicrous to state certitude in either direction: 1.) that consciousness is primary (or) 2.) that physical matter is the "real" (reality).
I think it's really disingenuous of us, with our admittedly, collectively limited knowledge (regarding empirical evidence) of what/ how/ why everything is, or appears to be as it is, to think that we can make such statements of certitude. To me, it signals either extreme arrogance or ignorance, likely both.
I find that it's liberating to admit to ourselves that we don't know a damn thing about what "this" (life) is. And we can do this without giving up on trying to reverse-engineer matter (pursue scientific knowledge), just like we can have a lucid dream and still have interest in what the dream will reveal next.
You might not know a damn thing about what "this" (life) is.
But perhaps I know more than you. That's why I would clearly state that dreams are instances of using your imagination while asleep, and reality as it appears to a living thing, is an abstraction of the information our primitive sensory organs provide us.
It is why we can look up at the stars at night, and we all see the same things. It is not imaginary, nor is it formed from some subjective consciousness. Yes, our senses are limited, and we are animals, filled with instinct and delusion, but is that really all you can say, in order to try to convince me that I should adopt a stance of being content with having no knowledge or curiosity?
There is knowledge to be had. There is wisdom to be understood.
I cannot agree with you that reality is as wishy-washy as you make it out to be.
You might not have a firm foundation regarding the nature of this universe, but don't confuse your ignorance with the studies and experiences that I've had.
Yes, it might be arrogant or ignorant of you to make a firm decision, but I've spent my entire life, since childhood, searching for the answers to these questions. I have found those answers, and I have accepted them.
Do you know what answers I've found? These answers are "cold, hard truths".
They are cold, hard, and they are true, because I am unrelenting with my search for truth.
I will not accept bullshit answers, and what you say seems like nothing more than an attempt to undermine truth by telling me that I don't know, when I do know.
You just need to ask the right questions.
Like I said, there is knowledge and wisdom in this universe, and it's free for the taking, if you have the courage to accept truth and fact. You just need that courage, and the sheer intelligence to comprehend it, if you want to stop with your opposition of certainty.
I don't disagree with any of this, I was merely pointing out the fact that we can't be certain that something like "solipsism" (as an example) isn't the true nature of "reality". And, since this is the case, we're being dishonest, either out of arrogance or ignorance, to state that anything is the "truth".
We can say that something is true relative to our current understanding of how the world operates (current scientific models of the universe/ physics/ etc.), but to say that something is absolutely, undeniably true is ignorant, it's simply not true.
You can be certain that you exist, because, well, there you are, thinking, breathing, etc. However, you can't be certain that anything exists outside of your mind. You can't be 100% sure that you aren't always dreaming, even when you have thousands of memories, creating continuity of experience and consistency of environment/ laws of physics/ what-have-you, to draw on to assure you that you're experiencing the "real", as opposed to the dream.
Call it wishy-washy if you want. Call it whatever you fancy. The fact remains that the scientific approach fails, and, in fact has no way, to disprove the alternate hypothesis that consciousness, not matter, is the "real".
What good does it do to dwell on what you're saying?
I wouldn't say you're wrong about it being utterly provable or unprovable. Only that it's irrelevant.
It seems like a way to be able to undermine any argument you want, the same way that "maybe it's aliens" guy is able to say "I'm not saying it was aliens, but it might be aliens".
Of course, it MIGHT be aliens, but at the end of the day, I do want to make a decision on how this universe works, instead of just standing in limbo. And I don't want to just accept the most stupid answer either, just because "maybe it's true".
Now, I'll forgive you if you're young. If you're new to this world, then yeah, your opinion is a good starting point. But if you're some geezer, and you're still stuck at not knowing if reality is real or not, then I really don't know what to say.
The scientific approach does not fail to disprove that consciousness is more real than matter.
The scientific approach, if we take every single fact we know all at the same time, and comprehend it all at the same time, we get a very reasonable picture of reality. One that consistently makes sense, and doesn't feel like it's deliberately wrong, the way "consciousness exists, but matter doesn't" sounds.
You need to have a firm footing in philosophy, as well as true courage and determination if you want to get by in this life. You need to make a choice on what you believe.
Do you think that consciousness is the basis of reality, rather than reality being the basis of reality? I mean, do you think it so much that you're going to call it truth or wisdom? Are you going to live your life on this principle?
I am not interested in a hypothesis that doesn't go anywhere and doesn't provide useful information.
I just don't have time for this sort of wishy-washy behavior from you.
You are being troublesome if you're going to tell me that reality isn't real.
It's just not a wise move to go that direction.
You'll end up insane.
First of all, I don't dwell on such philosophical topics. Let's make that much clear. Also, notice that I agree with your stance on reality that matter (the objective universe) is real. I'll accept being categorized as insane, but I can't accept being labeled as a flat-earther or no-earther (to coin a term) ;)
You confuse me in your latest post when you agree with my assertion that the alternate hypothesis can't be "utterly" disproved:
,then you go on to say:
That's a total contradiction. That is, unless you intended to qualify the second case of using the word "proven" as being more of a "soft prove", as in "not 100% certain", which only supports my argument further.
Also, you say it's an irrelevant topic, but please realize that relevance is a very subjective term in this context. Irrelevant to what? To whom?
I know of many philosophers, past and present, whom think that this is a VERY relevant topic, as just one example, off the top of my head. I personally see it as a topic that can really expand one's imagination and creativity and that it can be a very healthy exercise, when approached from the right frame.
Oh, and it is possible that the alternate hypothesis IS true...and the alien things, too! and God! and Santa Claus (although it would probably have to be in some alternate universe)! etc., etc.
That's one of the beauties of life: you can't be certain of anything!