Serious Question Moments #667
Not offensive by a digit. So here is the deal, I've been thinking for a while about limits, personal limits. Meaning that, even thought someone might be "wrong" in our eyes, in our opinion, the idea of correcting them, of showing them the way sort of speak, is as productive as watering rocks, and as ugly as stomping on lilys.
In all honesty not all beliefs are pretty flowers, but to the ones who believe in them, they might be so. I guess, that is why I'm bothered by this whole thing, because I'm attempting to flex some empathetic muscles that need a little more workout.
You could say there are belief system that are a little fringe, but benign. They will exist in the outskirts of society, and enjoy all the privileges of being small enough to go unnoticed. I've met some interesting characters in my life, I remember meeting someone who believed in the power of crystals. A crystal to heal, a crystal to forgive, granted they were beautiful, but I was never convinced they had powers at all.
Did it matter? Was it important for me to make my case? I'm asking because I think that at times when people get confrontational about these things they believe that if they effectively destroy someone else's belief system, they've achieved a noble victory. Who won? I ask, and some high horser will yell with a trolly smile - "REASON".
I'm fully aware of the belief systems that can be cancerous to society. A death cult is nothing to smile about, and as much as we might think they exist only in films, that is probably very false. However, even there, even when engaging with people with radical beliefs. What is the right approach to take? To insult, to attack, to judge, or maybe is it to ask questions.
And that is where I'm going with this unusual post, because I'm attempting to grasp where the battle should be held, The battle of ideas. Public debates? Forums? Blogs? Where? - I'm being serious, I would like to know how do we achieve balance.
I'm going to give this whole thing some more thought, It might be years before I find an answer that feels right. Or then again, I might never find it, and that is the whole point. Is truth really that elusive?
In all honesty not all beliefs are pretty flowers, but to the ones who believe in them, they might be so. I guess, that is why I'm bothered by this whole thing, because I'm attempting to flex some empathetic muscles that need a little more workout.
You could say there are belief system that are a little fringe, but benign. They will exist in the outskirts of society, and enjoy all the privileges of being small enough to go unnoticed. I've met some interesting characters in my life, I remember meeting someone who believed in the power of crystals. A crystal to heal, a crystal to forgive, granted they were beautiful, but I was never convinced they had powers at all.
Did it matter? Was it important for me to make my case? I'm asking because I think that at times when people get confrontational about these things they believe that if they effectively destroy someone else's belief system, they've achieved a noble victory. Who won? I ask, and some high horser will yell with a trolly smile - "REASON".
I'm fully aware of the belief systems that can be cancerous to society. A death cult is nothing to smile about, and as much as we might think they exist only in films, that is probably very false. However, even there, even when engaging with people with radical beliefs. What is the right approach to take? To insult, to attack, to judge, or maybe is it to ask questions.
And that is where I'm going with this unusual post, because I'm attempting to grasp where the battle should be held, The battle of ideas. Public debates? Forums? Blogs? Where? - I'm being serious, I would like to know how do we achieve balance.
I'm going to give this whole thing some more thought, It might be years before I find an answer that feels right. Or then again, I might never find it, and that is the whole point. Is truth really that elusive?
Other posts by yours truly
• Perusing down Memory and Lane
• If the keyboard takes over I want impunity
• Join me Tonight for Songwriter Shop Talk Featuring Dino Romanelli
• Some Youtubers who are failing at Steemin - Do they know why?
• Conversations with mental Larvas
Hi @meno from my perspective, one of the great things about Steemit is, the way it is set up most people feel a little pressure to be more amiable and less abusive.
Most of us being human, we naturally want to express our own views without causing offense. This situation seems to have a balancing out of each others points of view. I notice I have become more tolerant of things that I disagree with.
I agree, a lot more for me as well. there was a time i debated flat earthers... imagine that.
I blame democracy. We're beholden to each other's stupidity.
If you're wrong about something, you can impose that ignorance on me via the electoral process.
If there's only a small group of you, unlikely to grow, then it's not a big threat, but in the battle of worldviews it's tribal because if I don't control the state to impose my beliefs on you, then you'll control the state to impose your beliefs on me.
It's sick, and wrong, and its one of the many reasons I stopped voting, and encourage others to stop too.
I tend to side with the mattclarke's of the word, but I'm attempting to find out if I'm wrong. Its good to search for answers.
There are very few complete truths. Most truths are relative truths, and it depends mostly on the believer. For instance, it would be hard to convince me that there is no such thing as bigfoot. Despite the overall lack of forensic evidence, I still believe in their existence.
Religious beliefs are a mixed bag of crazy, but I see no point in trying to convince a true believer that their beliefs are not the only right beliefs.
It's all relative, man...
Oh yes Amber, hands down, I do not subscribe to absolutisms, they are quite myopic.
However, what if the belief is toxic... what then? what if the belief can harm you, can harm the system that you use to survive in?
The question that we frequently run into is, what is a toxic belief? A certain belief may be toxic for someone, and completely normal for someone else. So, who gets to decide if the belief is toxic or not?
To me a toxic belief is one that is potentially damaging to another human being. Meaning, we should believe in self governance, the right to work towards our happiness and all.
But if our concept of happiness is built upon the misery of other humans, and that mission, that path is justified because of a bigoted toxic belief.
Then, in my view, its not OK and should not be tolerated. We can't in the name of tolerance, allow intolerance.
"But if our concept of happiness is built upon the misery of other humans, "
I can certainly agree with you on this. As you harm none, do as you will...
I see animals with much more reason than some humans.
The truth is.
Hedac here is a difficult question for you. You might even say its a trick question.
Can an animal be capable of evil?
easy 100% yes.. since humans are animals too.
but... to answer with precision, we would have to discuss what is the definition of evil?
Evil, where without falling back into the philosophical problem of evil, which is more of a theocratic debate.
To me evil, is an act of aggression without a logical cause.
Regarding Humans being Animals, of course I agree.. But I was being more pragmatic about it.
So, lets exclude them.
I am perplexed by this question, and have been for decades... can an animal (not human animals) such as a cat, for example, take pleasure in the pain of others.. actually realize that they are hurting and enjoy the feeling of it. I believe not. I think it's almost entirely exclusive to human beings. I think it's what makes us truly different from the other inhabitants of the world, and what makes us so capable of destroying it.
Even pillows can be evil sometimes hehe ;)
if we destroy the world we destroy ourselves too.. that wouldn't be too intelligent... yet we call ourselves intelligent species.... so destroying the world would be totally illogical, yet it is what we do, so yes, we are evil.
I think the more intelligent the animals is the more capable of aggression without logical cause is. I'm not an expert. I remember to have seen some documentaries where killer whales were playing with their prey making it suffer a lot before killing it. In general animals, always seem to have a logical explanation for their behaviour and aggressions. Including humans I guess.
But the Universe itself is evil. We are slaves of its illogical quantum laws.
The main problem with our belief system is that we inherit it from our ancestors..and because of that if we are told to belive in something we belive it first and never ask questions. We dont use logic to define what we should belive in and what we should not. But when it gets to an extent of brain washing our morale breaks down and radical beliefs are born....
I would not dare to disagree, that is pretty much an accurate statement. Can we help people be logical about it? Should we?
We should if we can..but they might call us the radical ones..
The radical ones will save the planet. I hope. I think we can I think we can..
The radically compassionate and forgiving ones will save the planet.
Great comment. Totally agree. It is the indoctrinations that people have that make them think they are having their own thoughts regarding most things that they perceive and witness.
One must have an emotional and mental detox from the inculcations first before attempting to use logic. Because even logic gets distorted by inherited perceptual filters.
I believe in healthy debate but would never "argue" with anyone about their beliefs. We all have a different way of looking at the world and varying opinions should be valued because if we were all the same then the world would be a boring place. I tell people that I don't agree with them but that I love them for sharing their perspective with me. I don't believe that anyone has to "win." I always choose to ask questions and listen intently when the person is speaking. Sometimes I will share my own viewpoint and sometimes I won't... merely because I don't particularly like confrontation with others so if I feel they will be hostile if I offer a response then I just don't share my own beliefs with them.
I think this is a good topic to bring up though, I like it.
Ivy
I've played your role 100s of times in my life, but recently I've been considering if I should do something when the belief is toxic. When its extreme, when it can actually cause harm.
I guess that's why im lost in questions.
We always want what's best for anyone that we care about so we want them to see the light, so to speak, when we know a better way. I have found though that when you try to force your will or opinon or knowledge down someone's throat they often rebel. And instead of educating you end up turning them further away. You could try telling them what you know and that you know it to be true and why but I wouldn't force them to accept the information until they are ready to because it may end up damaging the relationship. That's my two cents anyway.
Ivy
Uuhhh i just remembered, I should tell you guys about street epistemology. This is the ninja way...
Lol I would love to hear all about this!
Ivy
I've had this pondering hovering in an open tab since you posted it.
I've not had much time for Steemit of late, but this post asks important questions and you asked it at a most interesting time (for Helpie) as well.
I've really enjoyed the comments that have sprung from it too...
Do I have anything to add (or subtract)? Possibly. Probably.
Get your post resteemed to 72,000 followers. Go here https://steemit.com/@a-a-a