Something Useful For Blockchain
One of my favorite authors on Steemit, @remlaps-lite (@remlaps), often raises very relevant issues for this platform. In one of his recent posts [Experiment] Decentralized Steem Showcase, he once again raised the issue of the /promoted page. For those who don't know about this page, please read this post. Long story short: if you send any amount of SBD to @null and include the post address in the memo, that post will go to the /promoted page. The more SBD you send, the higher your post will be.
Unfortunately @remlaps is currently the only author using this feature. I went to this page and only saw 7 posts. Although this possibility is very interesting, it is not popular. However, this can and should be changed.
I'm still new to this platform and don't know much. But from what experienced authors told me, I learned that earlier the possibility of promoting your posts was popular because it guaranteed an upvote from a whale. In this way, the whale encouraged the burning of SBD. In my opinion, such a scheme had one catastrophic flaw, it was no different from vote buying.
What do I suggest?
The page /promoted can be a place for a guaranteed meeting of the curator and a post. This requires curators who are concerned about the future of this platform to regularly visit the page and support at least 1-2 posts.
What will we get? The first is competition between authors. Authors will compete with each other for a high place on the /promoted page. To do this, they will be forced to send more and more SBD to @null. This will further reduce inflation and will be very beneficial for the blockchain.
At the same time, this will not guarantee them an upvote, which is the main rule of Steemit. Curators, live people, will review the posts on the page and support the ones they really like.
So what does the author buy by sending SBD to @null? He buys guaranteed curators' attention to his post. But for this post to get support, it has to be worth it.
Of course, I can't force any of the curators to visit /promoted. But I can do it myself. And although I'm a very small curator, I commit to visiting this page regularly and looking at the posts that will be there. If I like one, I will definitely support it.
I invite other curators to join this initiative and announce it, preferably in a separate post in different communities, so that as many authors as possible learn about the possibility of guaranteed review of their post by the curator.
I personally invite the Steemit team to join the initiative. It can be a different form of participation. You can declare that the page /promoted will be regularly visited by SC01, or for this you can even create a separate account and a team that will manage it (for example, SC10). The main thing is for the Steemit team to announce it. Then the number of posts on the /promoted page will explode, just like what happened with the "burnsteem25" initiative.
Perhaps this proposal has even greater potential. It could potentially turn the inflationary model of the STEEM token economy into a deflationary one. In the long run, everyone benefits from this. If you are interested in this topic and in general the future of Steemit, please read the post The Steem blockchain was deflationary over the last 4 weeks.
Thanks to all curators, large and small, who decide to support this initiative.
Do you know why this initiative won’t work in my opinion?
At first - of course - there are the users who are (always) busy like ants for just one purpose: attracting the queen, getting some gel royale… there are too many following „blind“ (your example is „burnsteem25“. So what? sc01 mentioned it (as a question!) in a comment! How many lemmings did you count? I stopped counting… 🤷♀️
Second part is the Steemit Team itself who does not reflect its mighty power (powerful might?) until fulfilling consequences - in my eyes.
If they say YES (and they could because the votes for @remlaps‘ posts should be a sign of heaving read if the do what they demand of their curators…) the/your proposal will be successfull immediately. In the beginning… after a while nobody remembers the very good purpose because the section is painted black by „ants“.
I agree with your point that there will always be people looking for shortcuts, but in my opinion, it's not a matter of "works" or "doesn't work". With a complex system like this, the best we can hope for is continuous improvement. You make a change, see if it did what you hoped, then make follow-up adjustments. Over and over and over again while the system continues to adapt.
For things we can do as curators, I like the proposal because I think it's a step in the right direction. Obviously, I've been doing this already.
Ultimately, though, I'd prefer to see visibility for promoted posts designed into the website, itself, so that curators don't have to do anything special to find them. /promoted already died out once, in the past, and I have always believed that it was largely because curators and readers had to remember to visit a separate link to find the promoted posts.
Still, if we can make it into a link that's reliably worth visiting, maybe some people will bookmark it as their entry point into the site (I have already done that).
Happy to give it a try with /promoted.
Now watching every day...
Just to confirm, will this not affect someones club status? Since we are transferring out SBD that we have already in our wallet to promote the post.
If the transfer is to @null this would not affect your #club status.
Okay thank you so much for your prompt responses. I will surely key into this initiative and also create more awareness about it here in my country.
That's why we need a new front-end that would take into account all our modern needs :) I hope that one will appear sooner or later.
Yes, it is quite likely that nothing will come of it. But I'll know for sure when I try :-) I don't really like the burnsteem25 initiative because those who are in clubs burn their earnings, but they could Power Up those earnings. In my opinion, Power Up is more useful than reducing inflation. Also, burning SBD is much more efficient than burning STEEM.
Regarding the Steemit team. You rightly pointed out that we all focus too much on them. I'm sure the Steemit team aims to make this platform more decentralized. But the fact is, the platform is not decentralized right now. The way to decentralization is Power Up.
Unfortunately, in the pursuit of SC01 votes, most authors do only what the Steemit team suggests and do not develop their own ideas and initiatives. So for this initiative to work, it needs the approval of the Steemit team, otherwise it is doomed.
Yes, I'm sure of that too, because here's what they've always said: "We're strengthening your communities so that you can support yourselves in the long run and be independent of sc votes."
No, the platform is not centralised, there is only one central big curator (not even that, because Upvu is kind of one too - for the self...🫢). And the big problem is that most users just see that, rely on it. Most of them have not understood that we are all curators at the same time. Well, and therefore many have not yet understood how important a Power Up really is. They have not understood that it is not about making the Steemit team happy...
That is what annoys me the most! I think I expressed that well with my metaphor.
As good as the one or other initiative of the Steemit team is, blindly following it makes the platform boring. Everything seems similar. If you don't adapt, you don't get (high) support. Many (old) Steemians leave the platform or "flee" to Upvu - if they can afford it. But even they will not be satisfied if they still have a bit of blogger blood in them: the lowered quality of Upvu users' contributions cannot be hidden. Well, they don't have to put any effort into their posts with the algorithm. It runs automatically. Boring. And definitely not attractive to outsiders.
Well, that depends on us, or rather, on the mass of users...
I have a completely different suggestion, but first a short (historical) introduction:
It has never been particularly good when a dominant whale intervened in blogging. Let's put it this way: In my eyes, the Steemit team does it best with its various sc (especially sc01 and sc02, of course), because it scatters the votes a lot - in a way that I have never experienced before. The community, however, reacts in the same way as before: they "suck up" to the whale (something that was so frowned upon before (see netiquette)) by doing everything that might please him. They only refrain from interaction, from appreciating and curating each other ("Write, write, write, the sc might overlook me...").
My suggestion to the Steemit team:
Vote at least two months (just don't specify how long!) nothing at all! Nothing at all! No reports or anything like that either! Nothing! Sit back and observe! If the "community" is left to its own devices, firstly the wheat will be separated from the chaff and secondly it will have to become more imaginative (by this I don't mean great topics for "engagement challenges" - those who are ambitious and have understood everything will get involved all by themselves). This will certainly include the promoted-page...
I didn't use mentions on purpose, although my fingers were tingling, because the longer I think about it, the more ingenious I find this suggestion... 😉
If you agree with me, feel free to follow up. I'm happy to provide further clarification.... 😊
You are a cruel person :) If SC01 does not vote for two months, there will be suicides here :)
In fact, everything is simple, but because of this it is very difficult. In order for the platform to develop, grow, and be interesting for third-party readers, everything has long been invented. For this, it is necessary that those authors who write interestingly, qualitatively and originally receive a higher reward for their work. Less work, less talent - less reward.
Do I achieve this? Decentralization. If there were 10,000 curators, each author would compete with the others to attract more curators to their posts.
Unfortunately, now we only have a few curators and 10,000 authors. The reasons are known.
Note that there are practically no professional journalists or writers on Steemit. But, for example, they are on Facebook, although they do not receive any money there. What can Facebook offer that Steemit can't? Here you can also present your own book and share this presentation among your friends and subscribers. But no, they are all on Facebook.
Steemit has a lot of potential, but it's not being used. Unfortunately, I still have no idea how I could help the platform :)
Don't blame me, I'm very sensitive... ;-)
Well, I think (hope) we can rule out suicide. But of course some users will leave the platform or disappear into Upvu & Co. And so we have recognised them, the users who are here ONLY because of the rewards. Honestly? We don't need them! So this selection would mean the separation of the wheat from the chaff - the wheat will continue (well and committed) as before, the intersection will think about what they could improve in order to attract the attention of very normal curators or readers.
In my opinion, this is the original idea that I have always advocated and propagated. I have had to take a lot of "scolding" for this: I was an antisocial capitalist. Everyone should get something.
Yes, the last sentence is even correct! The question is only "how". And also for this Steemit has to offer a lot. There is nothing in the white paper that says that everyone MUST blog or develop. If you can't do both, you don't need to (or shouldn't). The Steem also needs appreciative audiences (through engaged comments and/or votes). For that, on the one hand there is the lush CR (50%...!), on the other hand comments can (should) be voted. @afrog - I'd like to call him my mentor - has always said as a kind of maxim "don't disregard the comments as the spice of every article and a little income!" I can understand that with the current mentality of quite a few users, he has little interest in steem anymore. But I don't want to be unfair: this development is not new and could already be observed before the big fork in 2020.
Exactly. This imbalance must be brought back into balance. And in my opinion, as sorry as I am, this will only work (for the time being) without the involvement of a huge stakeholder. People have to understand that mass production will not get us anywhere. We need just as many (even more) interested readers. And they are only interested if the articles are also interesting. A vicious circle that must be broken with all our might.
Audience! Reading audience! Readers who want (and expect) nothing more than to be entertained by articles. Readers who wouldn't even think of writing (sustainable) content themselves, because content production is simply not their talent.
Oh, "back in the days" we had isolated FB influencers here who tried out the platform. What happened? Hardly anyone noticed them, because most of them were focused on their "I have to produce something now". There was also a lot of envy and resentment, because once they were noticed, there were suddenly (much, much better) competitors... Some were simply disregarded like hot potatoes.
I think if you keep doing exactly what you are doing in a loyal, honest way, you are already helping the platform enormously!
Just finished reading the interesting discussion on this post. Different perspectives and proposals have broaden my understanding of the platform. I will talk about one point raised by @chriddi:
We need loyal audience who just want entertaining content like on Facebook or Instagram etc and nothing more.
I'm more of an Instagram person so I will talk about it. It's interesting to see the effort micro-influencers put in their content. They don't get a penny for all their hardwork and sweat until they get a following of several thousands and hundreds of comments on each post. To get that level of engagement, they work really hard on their content in hopes of attracting audience and getting loyal audience requires constant hardwork and excellence.
Why can't we have that level of dedication on Steemit? Because we get rewards regardless of our followers and engagement on posts.
In most cases here, first we get rewards then we get audience (an sc01 upvote and then people come to see why a big upvote here). I believe curation means just that - curate content to make it trending for others to see. Only if it's reversed; let others (readers/small curators) find content first and then let big curators reward it.
A post shouldn't be rewarded unless it meets a certain standard and it should go for all authors out there. We see comments only on Engagement Challenge posts. Hardly few people bother to be as engaging on the posts outside the challenge. Once again, we see a could-be-useful initiative as merely a way of earning more rewards which destroys it's true purpose.
Like chriddi said, maybe wait for five days to see the engagement on a post, if it's got meaningful engagement then big curators can reward it with a generous upvote.
I think I said more or less the same what you guys already discussed but that was what my initial thoughts were after reading your points.
As always, you opened my eyes. Still, discussion is something very useful. It is now clear to me that Steemit's weakest point at the moment is its lack of readers. Not the lack of developers, not the small rewards, not the price of STEEM, not the lack of interest from the main owner. It is the insufficient number of readers that is the weakest point. If there was a large audience, there would be all of the above.
Having understood this, I immediately paid attention to:
It seems to me that very few people take advantage of this opportunity. And those who use only share their posts.
Maybe I should systematically share the posts I like the most? I will think about it. But I don't have cool social media accounts, I've always avoided them :-)
Thanks, I have more to think about.
Yes, even extremely important. Without discussions, weighing up the pros and cons and courageously trying out one approach or another, nothing will change here.
Me too. 🎵 Steemit was my first love and it'll be my last... 🎵
But you also bring me to other exciting questions.
Let's assume that we succeed in directing thousands of FB users to this platform. What do you think they would do? Would they be the desired audience? Or would they quickly think "Oh, wow, what rewards - I can do that too!" and start spamming the Steem and then disappear after some unsuccessful time? I fear the latter...
So I came up with the idea of how it would be to make curating more lucrative: Let's say 75% CR instead of 50% CR. All the authors will howl, but in the long run they will benefit too, because they will get an audience, more curators (among whom, under the conditions that it is worthwhile, will be investors) and maybe, perhaps, a more balanced Steem (because spamming might not be worth it anymore for 25% of a few cents). Of course, this would make Upvu and other bots even "richer", but maybe it's just a calculation that users won't delegate to them anymore (then they won't need to spam daily either) and prefer to use their SP for their own CR...
At first glance, this is a very good idea. But any idea can be spoiled. If it were as you suggest, I think many authors would leave the platform. Those who have delegated their SP to Upvu would remain. They would receive their curation rewards in liquid STEEM. Perhaps the result would be terrible.
Agreed. Especially now, while the SBD print rate is 0. This is why I've continued to use /promoted even though it hasn't gained much traction.
I'm not actually sure if this is true.
In principle, authors can attract attention from the Steemit team in #club5050, #club75, #club100, etc... but use /promoted to attract attention from other curators. If a $0.02 promotion cost gets you an additional $0.50 and reaches a wider audience, it's still worthwhile.
It would definitely be more compelling with participation from Steemit, though. ;-)
Perhaps the promoted page would attract more attention if a competition were organized. For example, whoever gets to the top of this page by a certain date will receive 50 STEEM. But for this we need sponsors :-)
Still, in my opinion, the only way to the success of the blockchain is to earn money from the outside. As a country sells goods to another country, and when it has a positive external balance, then the standard of living in the country increases. Steemit needs to make money. Currently, the price of the STEEM token is based on the belief of investors that one day they will be able to sell it for a higher price. The price of all cryptocurrencies is based on this. But if Steemit could make money, then it would be the most unique cryptocurrency project. We even have a product - it's content. We just need to figure out how to sell it to someone. Content is tightly coupled with ads, but a new front-end is required to install ads.
Maybe there are other ways. Some merchant could order reviews of their goods or services by posting on Steemit. But for some reason, none of the entrepreneurs are interested in this. Also, the authors would be withdrawing the money instead of investing it in STEEM. A system is needed where all earned funds are converted to STEEM. But I have already been carried away into the realm of fiction :-)
So, it occurred to me last night that we can already use pinned posts in communities to provide visibility to promoted posts.
See STEM Saturday Post Promotion #9: Human brain size started shrinking when information storage technologies emerged
Good idea. It would be good if other communities joined this initiative. This can really incentivize authors to promote their posts.
I agree. I had actually hoped that other communities would follow my initial idea of promoting a community member's post each week. I had thought that it might spur a little healthy competition between communities. My goal is to lose control of what appears at the top of /promoted. ;-) Unfortunately, after 9 weeks, that didn't really happen.
Of course, with this latest idea, there is also the possibility that community owners could sell "Pinned" post placement directly. i.e. "Send STEEM/SBD to the admin to get your post pinned for X hours."
Or there could even be a hybrid model. Burn SBD during the reward window or send STEEM/SBD to the admin to rent a pinned post slot after payout time. Lots of possibilities. It's such a simple gateway into advertising that I'm surprised no one has thought of this before (or maybe someone has?).
I guess it will be up to authors and curators to figure out which (if any) model(s) make sense.
An interesting system occurred to me. I don't know who could implement it. It is possible to develop an automatic algorithm that would work like a lottery. This algorithm could add up the number of SBDs burned by members of the "promoted" page during a certain period of time, for example, 24 hours.
After that, the author, whose post at that moment was the highest, would receive a reward - 50% of the burned SBD. The more participants, the bigger the prize. I'm sure such a rivalry would result in the voluntary burning of significant amounts of SBD. Even bot lovers could participate in the competition.
Funding of rewards must be done with Steem.DAO. That is, someone needs to write a proposal. I am sure that it could be supported, because in this case, in essence, the blockchain "buys" itself a reduction in inflation. In the end, everyone wins.
The system has one weak point. In the blockchain, everyone can find out who sent how much SBD to @null. Then the last member can just send a little more SBD to @null. But this can be overcome by the fact that the period of time during which the winner will be determined should automatically change in a random order every time.
I've been thinking a lot about things like this - ways to gamify it. Unfortunately, I haven't come up with anything that would not require more time and funding than I have at my disposal. I definitely think that gamification would be a good direction, though.
Especially if a game could be created that delivers audience and not just rewards.
This is a very important sticking point. It will also be part of my answer to o1eh when it comes to why we don't have good FB writers, even influencers, here.
Maybe...
I get your point, and I have even thought about the same thing. In my own mind, I ruled it out over two challenges, though:
Also, as the largest stakeholder, I think Steemit really ought to maintain some discretion over what gets rewarded.
Therefore, instead of stopping curation - if I were running Steemit, I would set up some sort of long term incentive structure that links their curators' bonuses to the level and types of blockchain activity and also the future price of STEEM. (of course, for all I know, they may already have such a program)
( I would also start burning 100% of rewards from the steemitblog posts. ;-)
Yes, I also think that Steemit employs such paid curators. But maybe they are not only responsible for curating and could be entrusted with other tasks (besides holidays) for a while. I think that is already the case, because curating is already taken away from them quite a lot by the suggestions of sc03-sc09. I also worked in one of these teams for three months. It was very exhausting and it takes quite a lot of idealism, because no one would work for the "hourly wage" (in our western world). I hope that Steemit Inc. pays its "real" employees better... ;-)
Perhaps there would be more bot and delegation users (only those who can afford it, of course). But since Steemit doesn't really want that, this was part of its monitoring task: anyone who overshoots is not community-supportive, gets put on a list (ah, the "idle" employees could create this during their break...) and also has to expect no attention from the Steemit team in the future (after the break)... ;-)
Yes, of course. As in any other case, that would be: Exceptions prove the rule. This would then be a surprise for "the lucky user" - and Steemit could be sure that it would hit a committed user who is willing to produce good content independent of rewards.
Good idea. A break like this is perfect to think about this in detail and then publish a consistent "set of rules" and the roadmap that has been called for so often in a transparent way.
This programme definitely exists in rudimentary form. Too often, however, the Steemit team does not adhere to its own guidelines when voting, which it "demands" of the curatorial teams. Sometimes you think, "OK, they want to use up their votes, because nobody would had read that sh..." I can relate to that: Nobody can read everything. Well-paid curators should, though - or the thesis of people hired specifically for curating is disproven.... ;-)
Word... ;-)
Well, I actually also think that the proposed "absolute voting pause" is rather utopian.
But a step in the right direction might be the following: The Steemit team votes after five days at the earliest. If by then hardly any private curators have taken care of the post in question and there are no comments on the content, it could be that the article is crap or the author is shunned by the community because of other "offences". That could be checked.
I think this is worth considering for another reason, too. High-value curators could use curation rewards to train smaller curators about what to look for. In the past, I have even thought that whales could (maybe) make Steem more valuable to investors by announcing a certain percentage of their votes a day or two ahead of time and intentionally letting the smaller voters "pile on" to collect the curation rewards. Yeah, the whale would lose curation rewards, but hopefully that would be balanced by an increase in the value of their holdings, since it would encourage investment (or at least, HODLing).
So there's a feedback loop there. The whale learns from the smaller curators and the smaller curators also learn from the whale.
This would be a very "social" aspect for manual operation.
Unfortunately, the reality is different: upvu, for example, votes after exactly five minutes and leaves smaller "curation calculators" no chance at all. Then, of course, there are the smart users who sit directly in front of the whale via autovoter.
But fortunately we are not talking about Upvu and all those who take advantage of this "service"... ;-)
I would be very happy to perceive this feedback loop at some point.
However, that would bring us back to the beginning: for that to happen, many, many more users would have to recognise themselves as curators.
This - and also the new comments by o1eh - give me further ideas: Have you ever thought through what it would be like to increase the CR share to 75%? Curating would be more lucrative, not every user would constantly produce something (which nobody is interested in anyway) "at any price". Unfortunately, upvu and the bots would profit greatly from this, but it would also be a chance to balance the imbalance between readers (curators) and producers (including spammers, scammers, etc.).
Your opinion is important to me! Maybe we can manage to sort out our thoughts (pros/cons) and find an attentive reader in the Steemit team. Many good thoughts have already emerged and been reflected here - they should not be lost.
We are watching /promoted now. Hopefully more people will use it now and burn more SBDs.
Powering up is good but alas some people then power down. That is always the risk with #club100.
We like the permanency of burning.
We like people powering up and manually voting.
But that isn't permanent, whereas #burnsteem is.
Thank you for your input. I always try to give the best example through continuous Power-Ups and share my upvote to the other Steemian.
We would love to see less focus on us - in fact we positively dream of that.
But we are not seeing much growth of big independent manual curators. Alas too many get tempted to take an upwards view to other opportunities...
Please, please, please, please... we want to see more independent ideas and initiatives that are not solely designed to get more votes from sc01 and sc02.
A very interesting discussion has developed under the post since I last visited here. It took me some time today to read your posts. You have given a lot of interesting thoughts and suggestions also for the Steemit team. I have also touched on some things with chriddi in the "Deutsch Unplugged" team and thought about how and whether to draw the attention of the Steemit team to them.
Unfortunately, the post has gone a little unnoticed. But I think that your comments are very valuable and that's why I put it on the promoted page :-) (Unfortunately, I didn't have much liquid STEEM left.)
I hope for many more readers and contributors!
Thank you @o1eh, @remlaps, @chriddi!
Thank you, this is unexpected for me :)
The discussion turned out to be very interesting indeed. Each proposal, which sounded here, has both advantages and disadvantages. It is very difficult to find a one-size-fits-all solution. But now I have expanded my understanding of this platform.
Sure! There are actually always two sides to the coin. :-)
Yes. But it's still better than carrying on as before! I could directly support some of the proposals mentioned and they are definitely worth a try.
Me too. And that is also the beauty of such discussions... when the time is invested in reading. I could have written a detailed post of my own in that time. But it was worth it to me!
Yes, Moecki, you're right. I have missed such a detailed, constructive discussion here on the Steem for ages. Such great ideas have come to light, which have been discussed objectively, taking into account advantages and disadvantages - there must be something that can be implemented.
And that's why I think the Steemit team should definitely take note of it.
Dear Steemit team (@steemitblog / @steemcurator01), please don't mind, this mention is necessary. Please take the time to study the discussion below this post. There are a great many approaches and multi-layered trains of thought in it that could possibly lead to positive changes on the platform if, after consideration, one or the other suggestion were to be implemented.
Perhaps you would like to join the discussion and make a statement - after all, it is also about you and your possibilities.
Thank you... ;-))
While reading, I often pondered whether I should reply to one or more comments. But in the end I didn't want to decide which comment I should reply to. There was simply too much information and points of reference. So I decided to support the project by promoting it.
I hope the Steemit team will also take the time to read and consider... and a comment in response would also be very welcome.
👍
Although I would have liked to read your opinion on one or two points. Well, on the other hand, I think I know it - we think quite similarly in this respect... 😎
At least they have noticed the discussion, are still "digesting" according to their own statement and will certainly get in touch.
I think so too. I will perhaps still comment on one or two thoughts. :-))
I hope so. It would be important and nice that they remain in dialogue. And they should definitely consider what a "thoughtless" statement can do (#burnsteem25).
Following. Reading. Observing. Digesting. Waiting for a small break in the clouds to reply...
Almost upvoted, but I caught myself. ;-)
Great, thank you.
I am very much looking forward to your response, your thoughts.
I hope the "digesting" doesn't cause any stomach ache. If it does, it can only be due to a possible misunderstanding of the wording, so if in doubt, better ask... 😉
Apologies for the delay. After holidays and all that, finally some time to join in.
Thank you for all this very useful discussion. Will drop responses on some of the comments.
Some things we can influence, others are beyond our control.
There are always two sides to every Coin...
No problem. I'm just glad you took the time to reply in detail now. That's the kind of appreciation I appreciate. The appreciation of engagement that is not "forced".
Sure. Above all, even a steemit team cannot dance at all weddings.
By the way, the fact that this is so often expected of you is something that often annoys me as a long-term user of this platform and almost makes me lose faith in the fact that there must be more people who understand the meaning of this blockchain regardless of a sc01 vote.
Definitely. This makes it all the more important to turn over the coins regularly and to reflect and evaluate them again and again. Resting on a certain status quo inhibits further development and makes life (including the Steemit life) boring in the long run. I am not mainly pointing at you, but at a large part of your "faithful", unreflective followers.
What I actually want to say with once again far too many words: I too will take the time to respond to your detailed answer, but I don't want to "shoot it out" quickly and now I have to go to work. I will get back to you. Until then, thank you for your open ear - and a sign in which I perceived with a smile (not for the first time) that we are actually swimming on a similar wave... ;-)
Thanks for the feedback and the promotion.
FYI, there's an interesting side-topic that I just noticed recently, in addition to /promoted, it turns out that it's also possible to see just promoted posts in my communities or promoted posts in a single community (WORLD OF XPILAR, in that case).
With pleasure. I've always wanted to try it, and now seemed like the right time :-)
Unfortunately, there's not much time left before the post disappears again.
Ah, I didn't know that either.
I had already thought about including the promoted posts in my page (and displaying them first), but steemchiller's API doesn't offer a query for this (or I just didn't find it).
I don't know about steemchiller's API, but Steemit's has a query that's described, here.
Thank you! It might be a bit difficult to combine several API's, as the data is prepared differently.
But ... the permlinks of the promoted posts could be identified by the Steem API and then integrated into my existing queries... I'll have to keep that in mind...
We have found this post, this dialogue and this exchange of ideas and opinions both informative and enjoyable.
We will look out for more high calibre post opportunities like this to join in the ensuing discussion.
Maybe we need a reqular 'Ask Me Another...' type post by someone who can authoritatively pull the thoughts and comments together into a coherent starting point for discussion?
cc @o1eh @remlaps @moecki @chriddi
In Ukraine, they say that one head is good, and two is better. Therefore, your idea is very good and I am sure that such a dialogue will be very constructive. You just need to materialize it so that it does not turn into spam.
I agree that one of us users should occasionally (but not very often) create a post summarizing the latest important suggestions, initiatives, ideas or problems. Yes, it is not without problems.
In such a post, you need to summarize all previous discussions, and only then involve the Steemit team in the discussion. Otherwise, it will be impossible for you to reread everything.
How to organize it? I want to hear the opinion of @remlaps @moecki @chriddi.
I would suggest that the first thing to do is to form a group (which may already exist... and in any case must not become too large).
I would like to brainstorm with the few people on a common worksheet and then create a common article (quasi the summary) from it in a common worksheet. Preferably Dropbox Paper or similar.
Oh, I'd even suggest using a whole new, unknown, virgin account for the publication, set up just for such purposes. The article can then be resteemt by users we know. Why? I want to avoid the risk of being accused of nepotism.
Am I too small-minded in this regard? Maybe. But believe me, I've seen, heard and experienced so many abysses here - a normal, honest person can't think so deceitfully and eaten up by envy...
In general, there are thousands of issues worth discussing. You can make a list, for example:
Each of these topics deserves a separate discussion thread. And far from each of these topics will be offered something useful and real. For something, resources will be needed, for something, the consensus of witnesses. We will need to focus on what we can improve now.
Dropbox Paper is a great solution for preparing a summary post. Where to hold discussions?
P.S. I still want to wait until the weekend as I'll be interested to hear more from @remlaps who hasn't spoken yet.
Of course, there are many topics. But our first task is to extract the essence from this discussion and develop proposals for a challenge: How can we as a community make Steem more attractive to real writers and real readers (and what part can the Steemit team, with or without its top-notch curatorial accounts, play in that)?
Challenge? Yes, this single question alone is a real challenge!
Right there! After all, it is a WORKsheet. You can distribute concrete tasks and everyone can enter their thoughts (in key words). These can also be discarded directly. The essence is sorted and brought into form.
Apart from the fact that we don't need any debates at first, but only useful and ponderable suggestions, such a common worksheet is perfect for structure and keeping the overview in a complex topic. In "chat groups" one only gets distracted by too many side issues.
Sorry for the slow replies to a couple of threads. We have some stuff going on in the extended family. Not sure when I'll get time to read and reply, but I know I owe replies. I'll read through this and respond as soon as I'm able.
I couldn't continue taking part in this discussion and now I have lost track of all the comments. Waiting for an organized and summarized post. 😀
After imagining how much you have to fight with scammers and fake accounts, I don't think you want to read the whole discussion below this post :)
Yes, I think that's a very good idea.
It's also better if someone of us writes such an article and then you join the discussion than if steemitblog does it itself, because then there will be just vuel too many comments à la "Great idea, sir!" - you can forget constructiveness then.
At the same time, I would find it good if none of us "rushes ahead" now, but we also get together in a small working group to discuss the further procedure. Haha, yes, I'm a pedagogical team worker.... ;-)
My "problem" is that I'm just not a full-time Steemian. I have a job, animals, family, responsibilities, friends and other hobbies - I can't write articles every day (although I can write, hahaha) and deal with long discussions. It's only either or - if at all.
cc @o1eh @remlaps @moecki
Very much agreed. Oh, those comments...
Looking forward to what comes next...
ok, I finally had a few minutes to read through this portion of the thread. I see two general sub-topic areas: a regular "suggestion box" type of summary post where we can draw Steemit's attention to ideas that bubble up from the Steem user base - let's call that a Steem Improvement Proposal, and a way to implement proposals for change. I also see that we all face a common struggle to find time for "Steem improvement" against the time demands from real life.
Another big challenge that I see here is how we avoid it being just another way to call for Steemit to do more stuff or give more upvotes.
I'm not familiar with Dropbox Paper, but I guess it's something like Google Docs? (Related: @skycorridors once suggested Skiff or Cryptpad).
In addition to the people here, I'd also add that @pennsif is really good at keeping his ear to the ground and assimilating the thoughts of the Steem user community, and his Steem News posts already do some of this.
One other thing that I've been really thinking about a lot is the idea of a "virtual assistant", which I learned about from @answerswithjoe, here and wrote about here. It occurs to me that if a task can be clearly described, Steem is a really good platform for making use of the "virtual assistant" model. So, I'll incorporate that concept into my answer:
I'd like to see a heavily moderated Steem community established for this purpose and a single "pinned post" as an index to track strategic areas of focus and the related "Steem improvement proposals" (with no other "pinned posts"). Here's a possible flow from idea into "Steem improvement proposal":
Steps 2-4 are rewarded with upvotes (presumably from Steemit, but witnesses and other stakeholders could also participate).
Open questions: (i) What to do about tasks that are too large/complex to be described in a post and supported by upvotes; (ii) How/When/if ever to link up to the SPS?
Out of time, so I'm not proofreading as well as I'd like - sorry for any errors. Obviously not a complete idea, but it's all I have time for. Hopefully it will stimulate some thought.
Thanks for the mention @remlaps.
Just catching up with all the comments here. Some very interesting ideas and suggestions. Hopefully a route can be found to take these through to fruition.
I have begun recently trying to crystallise some thoughts of my own into a series of (Steem Up) posts.
Getting a clear and thorough understanding of what the current issues on the platform are is more challenging than I first thought. Moving from identifying and documenting what the issues are to developing and implementing appropriate solutions is an even bigger task.
But most problems can be solved if enough people with enough ideas and enough willpower come together with a common goal.
It's very nice that you took the time. And I think the waiting time was well invested, because your suggestions are very good.
Using a new community to collect and "manage" the proposals is perfect from my point of view. However, "heavily moderated" will probably be very important, as I fear that there are some users who will seek attention there. I don't currently know if it's possible to restrict user rights so that root posts can only be created by certain users. Otherwise, it has to be muted.
Setting up a central (pinned) post is equally brilliant!
However, the role of the virtual assistant is not yet clear to me. But maybe I will realise that later in the process...
I also think we should just start.
I could offer to create a cloud folder for joint editing with OneDrive. We can create Word documents there and edit them together.
However, cryptpad's description also sounds good and could also be helpful for our purposes (joint editing of documents). If this is more desired, I would take over this set-up.
For the community creation we should arrange together (name, admin, mods etc.). We could make the arrangements via Steemit, Discord (or possibly OneDrive/Cryptpad itself).
@o1eh @chriddi @pennsif
I don't really have a clear picture, yet, either. It occurs to me now that Steemit already beat me to this idea with SC03-SC09, steem greeters, cryptoacademy professors, and country representatives, though. They've been making use of virtual assistants for a couple of years, already. I just didn't have a name for it. ;-) An example of what I had in mind is like this:
Say that the team agrees on a project to update the documentation for the Steemit API. That's too big of a job for anyone to undertake with hopes of relying on upvotes (we saw how that went with @the-gorilla and his front end effort). On the other hand, though, we could try to break things down into small self-contained, manageable tasks. i.e. ask "virtual assistants" to submit pull requests and post their progress, one API call at a time, and support that with upvotes. If someone abandons the effort, the upvote is not wasted, because the task was identified as a strategic need and it stood, independently, on its own.
Two other discussion points, for longer term consideration:
Some sort of community account could be good.
Then either the posting key could be shared for contributors, or contributors could set 100% beneficiaries to it.
Then anyone who wants to vote on the contributions (including the sc0 accounts) would be adding to the community war-chest fund.
Now we need someone to take the initiative and create a new community, discord server or dropbox paper. I could create a community, but I've been on the platform for a little over a year. I think I am not the one who should be an administrator in such a community. There are many much more respectable users.
I think that if we work out - preferably together with the Steemit team - a few criteria that are quasi indisputable, this problem can be avoided. There are actually some (few) users on the Steem who are willing to think about a positive future of the Steem even without a guaranteed sc01 vote.
This is not pure altruism: if the Steem goes a little more in an attractive direction, I personally have something from it too, because in the long run I would feel much more comfortable here. Will be a long process, of course...
Yes, that's about the same.
Great. I would welcome his input. In teamwork... ;-)
And I think this teamwork is something we should just start, then we might see more clearly. It simply brings nothing, if now every "understanding thinker" knocks out a post and you have to pick up the important aspects again laboriously. A "central place" (as you address it later), to which one can refer " straying" users, is important.
Fantastic! And probably the only way to clearly structure our work with the possibilities of the Steemit frontend!
Hm. Shouldn't we just get started on the work before worrying about "compensation"? If the teamwork is effective, the ideas will come naturally. If it is without the desired effect, we will have to think about something else under the aspect of "trial and error" anyway.
Haha, that's how the Steem works.... ;-)
Agreed, I think we need to have a vision of how things might develop, but we definitely don't need to know all the answers in order to get started.
Great point about starting a new community. I thought about it too.
In my opinion, we should work without any sc01 voting at all. Unless sc01 support will be needed at the stage of implementation of a certain proposal (probably this is what you meant).
Yeah, I agree. For the immediate topic of setting up a "suggestion box", we don't need to depend on SC01 votes. It's mainly about establishing communication pathways. The voting becomes more relevant when we attempt to implement proposals.
In principle, I think it's a good thing. However, I would definitely want to avoid the format or even the user becoming a kind of "mouthpiece" for the SC. Rather, the summary of the discussion on specific topics and also the different points of view should come to the fore. As can be seen from comments already made, it is difficult to keep track of the discussion and filter out results. Especially when readers join in rather late.
It would also not have to remain with the topics already addressed here, but later current topics could also be taken up and discussed with the SC and other users.
If the SC is willing, I could also imagine a kind of short question round in which the witnesses could also be involved (if they want to be)... I'd better stop now, otherwise there will be more ideas...
I would like to comment briefly on the comments of the other users mentioned, so that this is not picked apart too much.
I think the organisation in a small team is already feasible. Each member can refer to a specific part of the discussion or a specific (future) topic and work that up accordingly as a draft for the others. Chriddi's dropbox suggestion is a good way to do this.
The references to important topics could come from the user team or the Steemit team. However, such posts should not appear too frequently.... maybe not more than once or twice a month, rather as needed.
From my point of view, it would also be important to ensure that the topics reach the users. In this respect, a new account would actually be rather detrimental, although independence from existing accounts would be very advantageous. As chriddi wrote, in this case resteems (also by the Steemit team) would be necessary.
Possible rewards should go directly to @null and/or completely serve the self-promotion of the new account and the posts.
cc @o1eh @remlaps @chriddi
There is a problem with witnesses. They cannot find a common language even among themselves. For example they excluded xpilar from their communication channel. Imagine they have to negotiate a hard fork. Mission impossible.
If this is really the case, we can forget some thoughts and suggestions from the beginning. Perhaps even the Steem, or at least its further development - including technical development.
For the implementation of some innovations a hardfork is necessary from time to time. And this is the responsibility of the witnesses. If those can't even agree with each other... Oh My... Attractive future prospects...
This is a very, very important point!
In the end, after all, it's the Witnesses who would have to implement something deeper ideas (e.g. hardfork, which the sc01 has already rejected as not wanted, but which is essential for some things (e.g. changing the start page from the Upvu-infested /trending to /promoted)).
Well, I'm curious to see if this will be anything at all with "us". Someone would have to get started - and not as a lone wolf... ;-)
Don't think this needs a hard fork...
Ah, okay. A "soft fork". Anyway, a developer who tinkers a bit with the homepage. This should indeed be only a small code. Do you have people like that on the team? Go ahead, try it out... ;-) Every visible change is a good sign! If necessary, you can undo the change.
It is on the list.
We don't get SBD atm, and converting Steem to SBD to sent it to @null... I don't know. Personally I prefer to put 100% power up on posts, so...
Burning coins is one of the most effective ways to increase the value, but it is far from the only one. First of all, the popularity of the coin works. See for yourself there are many such examples with pumps and promotions - Musk and Dogecoin, Reed and Bitcoin Cash. And one of the effective means is the refusal to directly vote for oneself.
Oh, this topic has been discussed a lot. Everyone understands that bid bots are destroying the STEEM economy, but they are so profitable that people can't give them up.
Then popularization is the only way to increase the value of the coin
i would like to join wox discord for more learning
actually we start 1st node from pak can you please visit @stmapak.wit or
our wit announcement
Sorry for the late reply. I already voted for you. Here is the link to the WOX discord: https://discord.gg/4A3mu6Ja
Yes i see thanks for your time.