Steem Debates #1 : The Club System
The Steem Debates introduction post got a good amount of feedback and comment.
Now we will start the series with the first topic for discussion - the Club System.
The Club System
The Club system was introduced by Steemcurator01 about three years ago with the aim of encouraging people to build up their Steem Power.
Prior to the introduction of the clubs many people were just cashing out most of their rewards and not growing their curation power.
Club5050 came first with the requirement that over a one month period people should power up at least 50% of all their earnings.
That was followed shortly after by the arrival of Club75 (requiring 75% power up over 2 months) and Club100 (requiring 100% power up over 3 months).
As well as building up Steem Power to earn more from curation, the big incentive was that steemcurator01/02 would look more favourably on posts of authors following the Clubs.
The Pros
There was initially some resistance to the Clubs, and indeed some people even powered down and left in protest.
However it didn't seem to take too long before there was wide acceptance of the Club system as those joining in started to receive bigger and more frequent votes from the main Steemit curators.
Following one of the Clubs also became a criteria for taking part in some of the Steemit initiated activities like the Crypto Academy.
The Club system certainly had a positive impact in encouraging more people to power up more STEEM.
As well as potentially helping stablise the STEEM price to some extent, it allowed people to grow their accounts and so play a more useful, and rewarding, role as curators in the community.
This is almost certainly the most positive outcome of the Club system.
The Cons
There were initially some negative responses to the Club system.
People did not like the imposition of 'rules' by Steemit Inc. Many found it too restrictive.
Of course participation in the Clubs has always been totally voluntary.
At the beginning, and still now to some extent, there often seems to be confusion on the exact interpretation of the Club rules.
A number of tools were developed by @the-gorilla and others to help curators more easily determine club status. Otherwise manual inspection through SteemWorld was the main route for checking if someone was following one of the clubs.
What Do You Think?
Are the Clubs a good thing?
Should they be modified?
Or should they be dropped?
If the Clubs went should there be some other way to encourage people to power up?
What are your ideas?
While voting from the Steemcurator0x accounts is largely tied to Club membership, it might be fair to say that if Steemit Inc are providing the Steem Power then they should be able to attach some conditions to how it is used.
I see the Steemcurator0x accounts really as Steemit Inc's marketing budget.
They are giving away money for free.
I think we are all happy for that.
Thank you
Pennsif
[PS Check out @o1eh's very thorough response on this topic.]
It's totally fair. It's up to them if they feel like voting for only club100, nobody can stop them.
However, if we are to keep in mind what's beneficial for the blockchain in the longer run and review the past events, I think they need to choose the middle ground.
There was a time when the Inc. started making rules like curators and reps need to be in club100 and club5050 was mostly discouraged, the exception were a few reputable veteran users. That time was a little suffocating and made people frantically join club100 and eventually withdraw all rewards when they needed money. Since powerdown is highly discouraged, we lost many good users to it.
Why don't we only stick to club5050, where people are encouraged to build their accounts and at the same time can withdraw some rewards if they need to. I'm sure, this will improve the retention rate and there will be almost no need to power down and quit.
In a nutshell, I support the club system, but there's no need to add it to the rules and specially evaluate users' content on its basis. It should be one of the unspoken rules that if you want to get something from the community then you need to give something back too.
It's good to see some flexibility in the rules now.
¿Por qué no nos limitamos únicamente al club5050, donde se anima a las personas a crear sus cuentas y al mismo tiempo pueden retirar algunas recompensas si es necesario?
pero no es necesario agregarlo a las reglas y evaluar especialmente el contenido de los usuarios en base a él. Una de las reglas tácitas debería ser que si quieres obtener algo de la comunidad, también debes devolver algo.
De acuerdo yo por lo menos no estoy en ningun clubes y escribo poco porque en la mayoria de las comunidades exigen eso y es cierto que a veces necesitamos de todo lo que nos ganamos
I agree club5050 is a good compromise which allows people to both grow their accounts and to take some earnings.
That might seem to be a popular option.
That's why it would be good to configure it "by default"... whoever enters the platform already knows the rules beforehand.
Having read all of the other comments, there's probably very little that I can say which will be new but there's no harm in trying to add something different.
When the concept of clubs began , some of us found the idea unnecessary and as a good friend of mine said at the time:
...and the bit that still doesn't sit well with me:
It was this perception that the tag would be used as another means of "extracting votes from steemcurator" that will have attracted criticism to the concept of clubs. Of course, the idea makes sense - those people who power up more than they withdraw are demonstrating a commitment to the platform but the use of the tag can definitely be perceived as "ringing that bell".
#club5050 is now the 2nd most used tag, behind #steemexclusive. #burnsteem25 and #steemit complete 4 of the top 5 (with #thediarygame completing the set in 4th place). When we have 7 tags available to us (the 8th being a community), we're wasting precious tags that could be used to help people find our content on tags that are unnecessary (because the curators check their status anyway). When I see a post with the following tags:
I see a post that might as well have used no tags at all.
Having started with the more negative part... in my opinion, the clubs are working and achieving the job that was intended. As stated repeatedly when launched, being in a club doesn't guarantee a vote and of all of the initiatives that the Steemit Team has devised and supported (engagement challenges, country reps, booming, etc.), this is the most immune from abuse.
The club5050 appears to be the one which sees the most consistency in user behaviour.
Does the idea of clubs deter good authors from posting on Steemit? Perhaps knowing that they won't get voted by the platform's biggest manual curator is a deterrent but in theory, in the long term, the increased number of orcas and multi-dolphins should counteract the need for a single vote from a big account. My most recent post is perhaps a good example of this in action and what will hopefully become "the norm." for more authors at some point in the future.
That'll do. I've overthought and underwritten as usual.
😠🤬
Users be like 🙄
i love steem ..but why won't the price go up?🤷🏾♂️
If we looked at which users sell the most Steem while getting the most support ...i think we would see club5050 users at the top of that list.
Meanwhile people in club100 get minimal support which is retarded.
In defence of them though, it probably pales into insignificance compared to the outgoings by bidbot users.
The club100 vs. club5050 one is interesting (genuinely). Club5050 seems to be more sustainable but for whatever reason, people decide "I'm in club-x" and then decide that's their bed. Rather than just do what they do, power up and withdraw what they feel comfortable with and just get on with it.
With a few exceptions, I don't trust a lot of the club100. The ones who have never made a withdrawal so you don't know which scammy account it's going to. Very suspicious, sir.
Forgot about them in my 2 bourbon rant last night....
Hope all is good with you my bro
2 bottles of bourbon?
Yeah, all good here. I'm away for the week with my family so taken all my problems with me and crammed them into a smaller space 😅
Are you ready for your next adventure? All that peace and quiet must be nice 😴
2 standard drinks LOL, i would be in he gutter after half a bottle.
Yep ready for next adventure never been to Melbourne so a new place, Melbourne has more or less the same population as all of New Zealand.
the-mrs-gorilla has travelled there before and it's often the place people like the most so hopefully you'll find it really good too. I look forward to reading about it 🙂
That's why I said that the #club5050 should be three months, so that the newcomer demonstrates their commitment to the platform... the #club75 two months and the #club100 one month. It is a much more feasible and realistic proposal.
I think that makes sense if #club100 means that you're in #club75 which means that you're in #club5050.
If we're only looking at 1 month and saying "(s)he's #club100 because (s)he hasn't made a withdrawal" having just completed a full powerdown, it wouldn't make sense.
But as others have said, there's probably not a lot of benefit by having the additional club75 or club100. club200's a different story (although could be abused too).
I totally agree...however, beyond maintaining only the #club5050, which seems like a good idea and a fair way to withdraw part of my profits with the same enthusiasm that increases my voting power, it is vital to present all this like, at the end of the day, a "reinvestment" of your own assets within the platform. If the user understands the potential long-term profit, they will not hesitate to make it grow as fast as they can.
I honestly think that very few understand the compounding growth potential until they've done it.
Certainly, I was one of them, as was friend @irawandedy. I joined Steemi in 2017 but did not at all understand investing in my voting power as a long-term asset. Like him, I stopped halfway when I already had more than 50k SP... today, that I can understand it, I feel the need to communicate it to others so that they don't waste time. Especially the newcomers.
Agree about the tags - and the bell ringing !
I particularly can not appreciate why people like to make posts about their power ups - unless they are super large (5 figures at least😀).
Definitely...
No me atrevería a considerar al sistema de Club como algo negativo, algunos usuarios podrían quejarse de esa iniciativa, pero creo que es la única forma de mantener un balance de compromiso y decir:
Las palabras de 'remlaps' son verdaderas, puede que no tenga influencia en el precio de la moneda, pero construir Steem Power trae beneficios como los siguientes:
Y el último pero no menos importante:
Y si, es cierto que el club100 se puede prestar para desconfianza, entonces creo que no deberían existir preferencias entre quienes pertenecen al club5050, club75 o el club100. Creo que las comunidades no debería otorgar mayores puntuaciones en sus tablas a los usuarios que pertenezcan al club100 ¿Entonces estaría bien cambiar ese sistema de puntuación?
Showing commitment to the platform through continual powering up is important.
I agree that it might be better just to pursue club5050 and not so much club75 and club100.
Estoy segura que los autores disfrutarán mejor del camino!
Saludos, Dios te bendiga
I joined this platform since 2016 and at that time under the old management, every user cashed out all the rewards they earned and that included me. I was not aware of the existence of Steem Power as a long-term asset which is one of the assets for earning income in the form of Steem Power through curation rewards.
What's the result? I stopped halfway and didn't even have more than 5000 Steem Power at that time.
The paradigm about SP changed when I decided to return in 2021, although initially before the club initiative was initiated, I had done cash out to buy computer equipment so that mobility on the platform was more productive.
I realized that the club's influence had a positive impact on the growth of Steem Power to date, it was a surprise for me when within 3 years I was able to stay in club100 and have SP above 70,000. This is fantastic in my opinion.
I chose club status as the most important part to grow users' interest in increasing their SP, especially getting support from the Steemit team, but all users can choose their own steps, whether to continue participating in the club program or not.
There is a question that has not received an answer until now since the club initiative took effect, as the image above shows that there are 3 options that can be set by the user, whether to refuse payment, 50% SBD/ 50%SP and 100% power up.
Personally, I assume that by setting posts at 50% SBD/ 50% SP, the author will automatically be in club5050 status, meaning that the rewardsupport obtained will automatically be used for Power Up. However, the current reality is different, in fact, 50% of SBD (other payments) must be allocated at least 50% of the liquid reward (steem/SBD) for power-ups and the rest can be used for cash out (joining club5050).
I assume that with the existing arrangements, by powering up 50% of income other than SP, within 2 months they will have joined club75.
This is just my view and I also follow the club rules that have been in place for so long.
It is good to hear that the club system has helped you to reach 70K SP.
And it is definitely the case that there has often seemed to be some confusion about how membership of the clubs is calculated.
In fact I did it only in a month...
En mayo del 2021 cuando inicié en la plataforma no existía el programa de los clubes sin embargo ya yo había escuchado que encender nuestros steem líquidos sería una buena opción para ayudar a crecer más rápido nuestra cuenta, nuestro poder de voto y tener una máxima visibilidad dentro de la blockchain, así que todo lo que iba haciendo en mí wallet es decir lo que iba acumulando en recompensa lo iba encendiendo semanalmente de hecho participé varias veces en un programa de encendido que tenía el amigo @kiwisvanfly esto con el fin de potenciar mucho más mi cuenta y alcanzar un steem power mucho más alto.
Luego implementaron el sistema del club fue una confusión para poder hacer los cálculos pero se logró, para mí desde que inició este sistema siempre he apoyado el club 5050 más que a los otros dos y mi razón para hacerlo es simple y sencillamente que apoyando el club5050 tengo la oportunidad de ir potenciando lentamente mi cuenta y haciendo uso de parte de mi recompensa sin la necesidad de tener que apagar, sin embargo ahora mismo he acumulado un total de 11 k, pero hace meses atrás llegué a tener más de 21k, lamentablemente por una estafa de la cual fui víctima tuve que resolver apagando mi cuenta y aunque lo hice con todo el dolor del mundo porque mi sueño de ser orca se vieron truncados no dudé en seguir apoyando el club 5050 y aquí voy otra vez creciendo y muy decidida superar lo que tenía anteriormente.
Entonces personal y particularmente pienso que la idea de implementar y apoyar un club50/50 está bien dentro de la plataforma porque es una manera de ir trabajando tanto nuestra cuenta dentro de la blockchain como haciendo uso de parte de nuestra recompensa y esto va a generar un poco más de compromiso en cada usuario.
En cuanto a sí debería modificarse el sistema de los clubes pienso que con solo dejar club5050 estaría bien, y queda a elección de cada usuario si enciende el 50 al 75 o el 100% de sus recompensas.
No soy partidaria de que se elimine el club5050 porque como ya dije de esta manera vamos creciendo tanto dentro como fuera de la plataforma, el mundo entero está en constante movimiento financiero y la crisis mundial de la inflación nos arropa a todos entonces habran más de la mitad por no decir casi todos que estarán publicando y agarrando recompensas solo para sacarlas y nunca tendrán una cuenta bien potenciada, por lo cual el club5050 ayudará a estos usuarios a tener un sistema de ahorro dentro de la blockchain.
Son muy pocas las personas que decidirán potenciarse por sí solos entonces de dejar el sistema del club5050 activo sería bueno que se les apoye para que cada usuario pueda ver que seguir las reglas implementadas surge un buen efecto.
Thank you for your contribution - and good luck on your journey to becoming an Orca !
Good to see that most people want the Club system to continue.
The club system has played a major role in the steemit platform. I definitely accepted it and my journey started from the club system. I have never been against the club system since I joined this platform. I am glad that I have been able to grow my skills very quickly by following the club from the beginning. It is because of this club system that I managed to earn 40k+ sp in my short time. I definitely love this club system and have been able to get this far. Due to my financial need now I am joining Club5050 otherwise I would have still continued with Club100. I think the club system will be important to continue the power up on this platform. I would like to say from my personal experience that the club system has played a huge role in the rapid growth of my SP. But I will stand by any decision of steemit team. If the club system is scrapped I'll still be happy to continue my power ups. I highly value any decision of the Steemit team. We can expect something very good.
Good to hear the club system has helped you build up 40K SP.
It is a wise move to swap to club5050 to give you more flexibility.
¿Son buenos los Clubes?
Los clubes son una gran estrategia de crecimiento que nos permite incrementar nuestro steem power con cada ganancia que se reciba. Nos incentiva al ahorro y al fortalecimiento del steem la moneda de la plataforma a través de la realización de power up.
Por lo general las personas se resisten al cambio sin ver qué los cambios son para beneficio y progreso.
Siempre se debe pensar a futuro; saber administrar las ganancias en pro de hacer más fuerte el mundo de las criptomonedas.
Desde que iniciaron los clubes he procurado pertenecer al club5050 de forma constante y disciplina apostando siempre a mi crecimiento dentro de steemit.
¿Deberían modificarse?
Vivimos en un mundo cambiante donde los avances y modificaciones informáticas no se hacen esperar. Por ende de llegar a realizar algún cambio estoy segura que será algo bien planificado estratégicamente siempre pensando en las personas que hacemos vida dentro de steemit. Si es por mi los mantendría tal y como están porque cada persona puede pertenecer al club que desee de acuerdo a sus posibilidades.
¿O deberían eliminarse?
Considero que no deben ser eliminados los clubes ya que es la forma de hacer que el steem crezca y la manera que las personas re inviertan en las criptomonedas para que las mismas crezcan con visión de futuro. Con los 3 clubes existentes cada persona puede elegir a cual de ellos pertenecer y desarrollar su contenido dentro de steemit.
Si los Clubs desaparecieran, ¿habría alguna otra forma de alentar a la gente a fortalecerse?
Considero que los clubes son la mejor opción de alentar al ahorro y el crecimiento dentro de la plataforma; es la forma de crear entre los usuarios disciplina de ahorro e inversión económica.
¿Cuáles son tus ideas?
Que los clubes continúen funcionando y que todos los usuarios que estemos dentro del club tengamos acceso a recibir ganancias aceptables dónde nuestro contenido sea valorado de forma igualitaria.
Good to hear of your support for the Clubs.
There don't appear to be any viable alternatives at the moment for encouraging people to grow their accounts.
Sigamos promocionando el club5050 querer es poder crecer