Reactions to HF 19 - Linear Rewards, Vote Strength, Changes in Payouts, Self Voting, etc.
Now that the dust has settled, I wanted to post some thoughts on the last HF. I have seen a lot of posts with misunderstandings and misinformation. I want to try and clear some of that up. I do want to make clear that I don't have all the answers, and some of what I write here is my own personal opinion. You are welcome to disagree if you want :)
Rewards Pool Recalibration
There was an initial spike in rewards after the HF. This was due to a lot of factors, including a change in how the rewards pool is averaged out over a period of days. Based on the new formula, there was a surplus of funds in the rewards pool right after the HF. Combined with the increase in voting due to the 4x voting power change and whales now being allowed to vote - it paid out a lot of extra.
It was fun while it lasted, but it was not sustainable given the current price of STEEM. As I wrote about in this post, the payments were expected to fluctuate for the weeks after the HF and would eventually reach a new equilibrium.
At equilibrium, the amount of rewards being paid out per day should average out to the amount that is being added per day based on in inflation rules. The rewards pool still seems to be doing some minor re-balancing, but at this point it seems to be getting pretty close to equilibrium.
For the math nerds, here are two links that show the historic tracking of how much is in the rewards pool and how much is being paid out. (Thanks @jesta!)
https://steemdb.com/api/funds
https://steemdb.com/api/rewards
Change to Linear Rewards
Since the day I joined Steemit, there has always been talk about how the platform was 'unfair', and there was no point in participating because it was 100% controlled by the whales. After I had been on the site for 6+ months, and had earned over 10,000 SP - it was somewhat disheartening to have my upvotes only be worth a few pennies. For users with even less than me, their votes were not even worth $0.01.
I have always argued against people who believed the whales shouldn't have as much power (they earned their power based on the rules of the blockchain), but I did agree with the fact that things needed to change if we wanted to build a platform that would scale to 'the masses'. People don't like to play games that they don't feel are possible to win.
The changes in HF 19 changed all of that. Even now after the payouts are down from the post-hf spike, dolphins and minnows have a lot more power. I can add more than $10 to a post if I give it a 100% upvote! Even new users with a small amount of SP can increase posts by a few cents or even a dollar. If you want more influence, just buy more SP. This is a HUGE change compared to pre-hardfork. Changing this was the main goal of the HF - and it succeeded.
In my mind, changing this imbalance will go down as one of the most important changes that have been made to the platform. Having more SP now actually makes a difference with your voting. This has added a lot of value to holding SP (influence), and has not done it in a way that was unfair to our platform's largest stakeholders. It has also made the platform seem a lot more fair.
4x Voting Power
There are mixed feelings on this feature. Some users will see it as a reason to be lazier with curation, and only hunt for 1/4 as many good posts. If people really want to do that, it is their choice, but to me - it misses the point of the platform. Rewarding good content is one of the main reasons we are all here. We can all still take the time to hunt for really good content, but now we have a way to "super reward" the really good ones we find.
It has changed my voting behavior. I find myself voting with mostly 5-25% votes now, and saving my 50/75/100 for really good posts. I do think it is fun to have a little bit more granular control. I haven't found myself voting on less posts, just with less strength. Giving a 100% upvote to an epic post is actually kind of fun :)
Self Voting
There is a very healthy discussion going on about self-voting, and I think it is important for this to continue.
Even if the community comes to a consensus on this though, remember there are no official rules regarding this, and everyone is allowed to use their stake how they see fit. At the end of the day, self-voting is "allowed".
If there are users that are truly abusing self-voting, then hopefully the community will detect it and can react with appropriate downvotes.
My view is that there is a healthy balance. The rule that I suggest (my personal opinion) is the 90/10 rule - Try to spend 90% of your voting stake towards others, and 10% to yourself and friends. This ratio (even if there are some people who don't follow it) will make sure the platform keeps rewarding the good content, while still allowing some indulgence in the basic human nature of wanting to reward yourself and your friends.
The way I see it, we are all stakeholders, everyone gets to chose out to use their stake. It is up to us to use our stake in such a way that we try to grow the pie for everyone, rather than trying to maximize the size of our own individual slices.
There are always going to be people who do things for selfish reasons. It is best not to get too hung up on what those people do. If the majority of us focus on using our stake for the betterment of the platform, then I think we'll be fine.
Trending Authors
This isn't really related to the HF, but I wanted to throw in a few thoughts on it. A lot of the rewards do keep going to the same authors. At this point, I am happy and honored to be one of them :) It was certainly not that way when I started out out though - it took me 6+ months and a lot of hard work to get there.
There is a lot to be said about the people that spend the time and effort to build up a following, and are able to consistently produce good content that their followers like. At the same time, it is important that we successfully onboard our new members too.
People need to feel the ladder is worth climbing in order to stick around. New users shouldn't come to the platform expecting to earn instant rewards just by making one or two posts, but there does need to be recognition and rewards along the way for the ones that are putting in the effort to get there.
Just keep that in mind and try to find the right balance when you chose how to allocate your share of the rewards :)
Bottom Line
My conclusion is that the HF was a big success. It will still take some time for the community to reach it's own equilibrium on proper voting and rewards allocation, but I do think we will get there. The HF has corrected the imbalance at the blockchain level, and has given every user influence directly proportional to their stake. Now it is up to all of us how we use that power.
Reminder to vote for witnesses!
The Steem witnesses are the elected leaders of the community that power the blockchain. Everybody should learn about the Steem witnesses and vote on who they think is best. If you don't know much about witnesses or aren't sure who to vote for, you can check out this Witness Voting Guide. If you think @timcliff is doing a great job, please consider voting for him as witness! You can vote for witnesses here: https://steemit.com/~witnesses
Post Rewards
I did not 'decline payout' on this post so that I could donate the liquid portion of rewards to the SteemFest Travel Reimbursement Fund @t-r-f.
This post & comments took me a good part of my morning coffee readings. Nice, informative, actual. Big thanks @timcliff. I feel that in general HF19 was a big step forward in the right direction. x4 voting power increase to me is not worth even talking about. As long as I can select 5%, 1%, (or even a 0.01% here on esteem app) of my voting power , where really the problem is for anyone?
What yet concerns me most is the BOTS. The use, misuse, and abuse brought by all kinds of bots. These community "participants" upvote, follow, unfollow, comment, possibly even downvote/flaging here on the network. Which we call a social network. But do them read? Or see picture? or watch video? What purpose these bots serve, except grow grow grow faster, more more more money, and quick? I feel this area of bot's usage remains yet to be more regulated, changed, improved. Agree? Or I misunderstand something?
Bots are not humans. I am here to interact with humans. Not dumb machines.
Bots in of themselves aren't necessarily bad. As the platform continues to scale to more users, a lot of bots (like cheetah) perform actions that humans would not be able to do on every post. There are still humans to interact with, but the bots serve their purpose too. IMO, there are good bots and bad bots (subjective opinion). The good bots are adding value to the community and improving the platform. The bad bots are serving selfish ends at the expense of the community. (There are good humans and bad humans here too..)
Although I feel that I should have joined Steemit earlier, I also feel that joining Steem after the hard fork 19 is not as bad. I get more power with my votes now compared with what people use to get before this fork was released.
Newbies get the same power as an expert, and users can always buy more Steem Power which will give you better results.
You're missing some of the problems that have come along too Tim. Views are largely down on posts. Especially in minnow land we see fewer interactions. The instinct to horde steempower when starting is strong, so with a few posts, a few votes on posts, and a few on comments you're done for day. Minnows are interacting less. The upside of linear rewards to a minnow is more than cancelled by the lack of views and interactions.
You're also downplaying the amount of autovorotic behavior. If you look pre HF there was about 77MV going into comments. It's close to 400 now and it hasn't all be averaged out. We're seeing what I think will average out to about a 10x increase vosterbation.
I think linear rewards is mostly a good thing, but we wouldn't have to worry about it so much if the distribution on this platform wasn't the top 1% of steem holders own 93% of the steem, and that's before we include @steemit.
I think there are some big problems left over largely from 40x->10x and distribution that I hope the top witnesses take into account.
Thanks for your views though. There are some benefits as you note, but I think it's actually going to take minnows longer to break out now.
There is no question that there have been good and bad impacts from the HF. Most of the 'bad' parts though are based on user behavior. I realize that incentives are largely what drive that, but we do have to work as a community to incentivize and encourage the behavior that we want. The blockchain is the platform/framework that we all use, but it is really up to the community and users what we do with that. I think that the short-term change in statistics that we are seeing is not a true measurement of what the effects are. We are still in beta mode, and things will change a lot more once communities open up and the UI user experience is improved. For now I think focusing on getting the fundamentals right is the correct course of action. I am still confident that this will all play out for the best in the end.
Very true, social incentives I call them. I'm glad you support flagging against self voting abuse (though of course I can't speak to the parameters of this support).
@timcliff @aggroed
As a minnow I am guilty of less interaction then I was with my fellow minnows then before the fork. I use to just randomly go into new introduce yourself posts and drop by to say hi, follow, upvote, and be on my way. I use to also spend more time interacting, or trying help out fellow minnows as well. I’ve noticed some smaller projects people have made to support minnows stop receiving views, and the people running just put out less content now.
So why did my interaction drop?
First part of it is limiting factor of upvote power. I have learned I need to keep mine at or above 80%, and I am super picky now with what I upvote. I’ve noticed once a minnow find this out they are reducing the amount they are upvoting.
Second, lack of tools Steemit has put out for me to properly manage my feed. Sure members of the community have started to create add-ons where you can do things like mute someone resteem ability to your feed, or gain better statistical data. I’m finding myself being more picky on who I follow (I even went and unfollowed a bunch just to keep my feed “manageable.”) I like the idea of a feed but a lot of people who have thousands have described them upvoting someone blog on their feed like “winning the lottery,” the chance is so rare. I see myself being heavily dependent on third party apps in the future.
Third, the weather in Florida is absolutely gorgeous this time of year. I’m spending less time in doors and more time outdoors swimming. I’ve noticed a lot of other people are spending more time outdoors as well. Naturally, not having to vote as much. I get to spend less time here and that not a bad thing, but I’m also not finding the gem of a post by someone who just joined either.
Finally, a few of the tags that where created for minnows usage is either dead or over run by non-minnows. I know better than to use all my tags for the really big things like life, Steemit and so on. As any views there are just minutes if that. This leaves me using a big tag or two and then trying finding the lesser tag where I can stay up for days. Even someone as small as me with help of minnowsupport can stay for days near the top if I find the right tag. I noticed a lot of minnows even I still struggle with this.
I hope in some way this has helped to better understand at less why I am being less active and I can only assume others are as well. Perhaps it will help lead to further discussion on changes beta needs to move forward and retain new users who I have been noticing sometimes never log back in.
This, yes, ALL of this. Me too!
I am a minnow and I upvoted a whale's post last night at 90%+ power and added $100. Amazing!?
Read my posts, rarely beyond 5 mins long. Always hilarious and entertaining!
NO ENTERTAINMENT LIKE THE IDIOT BOX
That's not possible. You can read how it works in my article Common SteemIt mistakes and misconceptions.
It was a 6½ day old post, no more voting going on. I saw the $amount increase by $100 after my one upvote, so was very surprised. Thanks for the good read.
I work very hard on my posts. I engage a lot with others and get very little for what others say is a great posts. I never did vote for my posts but now I do on 5th day. Before payout.
I couldn't have said it better myself! thanks!
This is what I'm talking about with a lot less "institutional knowledge" in my comment question elsewhere on this page.
You can buy the right to votserbate or even to sling mud, and I've seen it first hand. And there is no way to combat the unfair attack by a lesser powered, but more involved and contributing community member. Others with good intentions have to rescue them. Or not. Not a reliable proposition. So all that you said above seems exacerbated by being able to buy into the 1% and attack the 99% who combined, cannot fight back.
I'd wish that in my utopia version of this place that some kind of Rep score was used for influence metrics and the money was separate. That's just my wish.
It's seem I am not fully grasping it all though, since big leaguers have voiced disagreement with my points in "my part" (for lack of a better designation to indicate the comments under mine) of this page's comment thread.
I'm not going anywhere either way. Based on what appear to be some pretty extraordinary growth metrics on my account for my very young 31 days here, I already know I'll get to the "top" soon enough. I'm sold out for steem and steemit, and spend 20 hours a day here more often than not, encouraging, promoting minnows, sharing in the experience and trying to use my powers for good.
I just hope it doesn't end up a spoiled bag of apples because worms who just show up overnight to take advantage of the farmer's hard work.
We're actually in a better position to group together and combat abuse that we were before HF 19. The combined effect of many minnow is actually significant.
Perhaps, but I'm not gonna be the one to ask fellow minnows to scream this is Sparta on MY behalf. It would have to happen organically when they saw it and shat brix. That said, I often campaign for judicious downvotes but it seems to fall on fearing ears, because the only people I see flagging are dolphin or above.
It's true that there is not a culture of it yet. I had an idea a while ago about a way to coordinate minnows into righteous flagging swarms but it would always require crying Sparta 😉
SpartaSwarmBot? Hey that does have a nice ring to it.
So does VigilanteJusticeBot or WitchHunterBot tho. Hmmm.
You blame the increase in comment rewards solely on self-voting? Why?
Good question.
I agree with you arggroed, I spend some time among newbies and I have seen that most of them do not wish to vote or even comment on posts. But then when I visit the hot and trending section, the posts there have a lot of conversation and people are voting and commenting there.
This is why you have become one of my fav. guys on here and why I gave you my last witness vote. You have shown you are not afraid to speak your opinion and as an activist who has been targeted, this speaks to me @aggroed.
Thanks Barry! It's an honor to wear the Dutton Badge on the Witness voting wall.
You are too kind. I have sensed for awhile quietly watching your hard work, that I will likely do a blog on you.
I basically decided that, regardless of the blog post or not the day I gave you that vote and I am feeling still really good about it.
I like you.
Moreoever, I think I trust you and I cannot say that about many people, especially online.
I hope you have a nice night and stop by the
#SteemitCampfire
--
if you find time in the midst of being so awesome.
(:
I appreciate that comment, @aggroed and I appreciate that you and other whales are trying to make the platform succeed and are dilgently watching the effects of HF 19. I do on rare occasions visit Discord, and I do resteeming as a way of helping other minnows.
Steem shouldn't be thought of as a "get rich quick" freeway, but it should be thought of, I think, as a destination spot, and oasis where your creative talent and skills have a place to blossom, and shine, and grow. It should be a place where artists, writers, photographers, and programmers can "cut their teeth" on small to medium sized audiences, and get valuable feedback.
It should also be a place where small communities of faith, or people with similar interests can meet, and build one another up. Thanks again for caring!
"The top 1% of steem holders own 93% of the steem" - I hadn't realised the wealth was quite so concentrated! Globally, in the outside world, the top richest 1% only own about 50% of the world's wealth.
The only thing why I still have my doubts for success of Steemit is that the distribution couldn't really be any worse. Will it matter in the end, who knows? But it seems like the whales can power down while still increasing their share more compared to others. Working as intended? I wonder how a system like this would work with fair and proper distribution at times, maybe one day we'll see.
Fork it, fork it and show us what fair and proper distribution is because waiting won't change the distribution one bit.
The whole point of Steemit post HF is to have a stake in Steemit blockchain I think. There are two ways to do that. One is to invest time and value and the other one is to invest money in SP. Having stake means having more influence and more rewards.
Personally speaking, rewards have almost vanished for me. I was getting $20 a day on my posts initially in June but July has been dry. It takes a week to get $15-20. Bad times to be a minnow.
I hear you - I do, but it is to some extent a short-term view. There were winners and losers from the change, for sure. In the long run though, HF 19 will have made things more balanced. For a minnow, more important than the amount they make on their posts, is the exposure and followers that they get. The HF wasn't really intended to fix that, which is really what is needed to help with the issue you are raising. When communities are implemented, there will be a lot more avenues for people with low followings to get connected and meet people with similar interests. When that does happen, having the people you interact with (who will probably mostly be minnows and dolphins) be able to upvote your posts and give something will be really important.
Thank you very much for all your encouragement and support. I have been understanding the paltform since I joined and specially after the HF. I do understand that the best approach is to interact, get exposure to the community and a build a healthy following (by adding value and not at all by follow for follow).
The minnow frustration has led me to interact with people like you and so many great people. I have learned a lot by reading from well established authors here. A notable example is @dragosroua who explained post HF pains in a superb post of his.
I personally think that getting rewards is not the most appropriate strategy to follow; adding value is. Thanks for being generous and supportive, again!
Great post as always, Tim! You are a great asset to this network. I'm very glad you are here. I agree with you that HF19 was a great success. People will always find something to complain about, no matter how many improvements are made. We can either waste time arguing with the haters or we can look for great, constructive criticism, prioritize it, make changes and keep moving forward.
I totally agree! Thanks for the comment :)
this applies to you as well.
Thank you for the wise words Tim. Most of my time on the nextwork has been spent post HF19 as I joined just prior to the end of May. I have had an excellent and I feel lucky time so far here on Steemit. I am also implementing a strategy to continue to reward others and myself, while more like 60/40 than 90/10, but as I continue to produce better content and recirve higher rewards, I find my smaller sized upvote is better given out to help others and show compliment for their hard work. Thanks again for all your hard work! Looking forward to the meet up coming up.
I try and reward people that are following me and comment on my posts, and only reward myself to bump up my comment. I feel like that is a good way to balance it out. Thanks for ya'lls info
Before HF19 that was my practice. It is naturally how people treat their community, those they follow, and who follow them.
I can't do that anymore, because when I do, my VP will not recharge fully. I already need to not vote for a couple days to recharge it now.
I have never intentionally voted my own comments, prolly because I didn't know about bumping it up until I had only 10 votes to cast per day.
Edit: I would have voted your comment before HF19, but can't now.
I think all the hype from the HF19 is slowly claiming down and getting back closer to equilibrium. I believe if people want to watch their rewards go up they have to do two things:
Either buy SP now to speed up your "STEEM TRAIN", or keep the current path you are on. Steemit is not a get quick rich scheme. Focus on making friends and the money will come.
Sounds simple, but of course it isnt
This was an absolutely fantastic summary and analysis. A couple things I wanted to touch on specifically, because I feel the same way you do:
I am absolutely blown away by how much voting power I have now. Prior to HF19, I could sway posts by about .08c, which was something but not a whole lot of anything in the grand scheme of things. Now I have a much wider influence and I feel like I can actually make a difference. As someone who's been here since August of last year, it really feels like an accomplishment.
I really do hope more people view the voting change the way you and I do. I like reserving 100% upvotes for something that really blows me away.
To be honest, just before HF19, I wanted to leave from Steem already. I decided that since my voice does not matter, there is no sense and try. But then HF happened, and it turned out that even my little voice was worth it. And I stayed.
That's awesome!
We all want to feel like there is an opportunity to grow our work here. Time will tell about HF equalizing the playing field. Thanks for posting. 🐓🐓