GMO corn that enables no-till planting.
Rather than plowing under last year's corn crop to prevent weeds
................................................................................................................................................................................................
- the new crop is simply planted through the refuse from last year's crop, and any weeds that emerge with the corn are killed with an herbicide, to which the corn plant is resistant. This saves a vast amount energy and prevents topsoil erosion from plowing
...............
Why is this a bad thing?
Thank goodness the Internet and Google were invented. They allow us to prove or disprove and idea or opinion we may have.
The effects of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias can easily be seen in discussions like this one.
Who really knows what truth is anymore?
Environmental degradation, species extinction, and overpopulation are all driven by the need (to increase profits) to increase cheap food supplies.
We live in a world where people still starve to death, while we waste almost half our food and feed all that corn to animals (value add!... but basically turning calories into waste heat).
Throughout history civilizations and empires have failed after depleting and destroying soil and natural resources. Look it up.
Read this... http://soilandhealth.org/copyrighted-book/topsoil-and-civilization/
I’ll stop now.
there is abundant food available to feed everyone alive right now.
anyone who goes hungry does so because their government wants them to do so.
how do you know that the population is increasing to a dangerous degree?
So if there is abundant food available right now, why the need to increase cheap food supplies?
Who benefits?
I don’t know how much population is too much. What I know is Earth’s resources are finite and can’t support unlimited population growth.
Do we take steps to slow further growth now, or do we continue until the bodies start to pile up?
So if there is abundant food available right now, why the need to increase cheap food supplies?
wrong word...not increase so much as maintain.
Earth’s resources are finite and can’t support unlimited population growth
Not a problem then...all first world nations (the one's who have actual censuses) are experiencing popultion decline. The others are estimates...they benefit if they estimate HIGH. How do you think they'd estimate?.
Earth’s resources are finite and can’t support unlimited population growth.
already happened..the peak growth rate was in 1962
The chart shows a declining growth rate. The net population is still increasing. If food supplies are only needed to be maintained at current levels, net population growth would stop or decline.
I want to propose an experiment you can do and see the results with your own eyes.
Go down to the pet store and get a couple pairs of mice. Yes I know mice aren’t people. This is just a simple experiment.
Get them a nice big cage. This is their Earth.
You will be the natural environment that provides services to the mice, you will feed them. You will feed them an unlimited amount of food. Whatever they want.
The population grows. Keep feeding them as much as they can eat.
More population growth. That cage is getting crowded. More disease, more stress, more violence... your overcrowded mouse world isn’t doing so well.
One day you run out of mouse food, for whatever reason. Your environmental services no longer provide what’s necessary for life to continue as it has in the past.
What happens?
Population in mouse world crashes. Maybe an extinction event.
We see that scenario played out in the natural world constantly. Animal populations increase and decrease according to food supplies. A dynamic equilibrium, a natural balance exists.
This same Law of Nature probably applies to humans too. We can use our smarts and creativity to recognize this Law or throw the cosmic dice and ignore it. It’s our free will choice.
Your chart could be a demonstration of this Natural Law. Our clock is ticking.
it's called Rat Utopia.
Been done...
NOT happening to humans...as I said earlier. All first world nations (that would be the US, Europe, Austraila, japan and others) are experiencing a population DECLINE. The only reason the population of the US increased was due to immigration.
In fact the only place where the population is (supposedly ) growing is Africa,(perhaps china and India) and that's based on Estimation...not head count.
Like I said...it's to the advantage of those ruling classes to estimate HIGH. They get more 'foreign aid that way. Even if the population was in decline they'd say otherwise.
Nice post Mr. Mickey, I wasn't aware of this new no-till corn strain...it has interesting benefits, but haven't they determined that herbicides are what's killing off the bees? We need those little fellas to pollinate our crops!
Don't Believe the Buzz - Bees Aren't Going Extinct
herbicides kill plants.
Yea, like that good old stuff they called agent orange. Whoops.
yup...agent orange was a cocktail of herbicides...
My uncle works as a herbicide lobbyist and would make much the same argument. No till farming has some great advantages. It is highly productive and efficient and reduces soil erosion.
And it is a bad thing because the residue from that herbicide taints the soil and water and most importantly the products made with the corn. And of course we also see that the weeds are developing immunity to the Roundup they hose the fields down with and so then they have to use more and more and develop ever more powerful forms of Roundup. It also encourages monoculture which is more susceptible to widespread crop failure than polyculture. If you try to grow the non Monsanto corn then when the pollen or seed from that shit contaminates your field they sue you! Monoculture and monopoly.
New Flash...not every thing is perfect like the School System you worked for.
WHAT is a less destructive alternative?
Do NOTHING is NOT an option.
At this time organic no till farming is not possible but they have been integrating reduced tillage and rolling and mowing of cover crops. But of course it would be quite impossible to ever produce enough food for everyone on earth using organic farming techniques. I wouldn't describe either the school system or no till farming as "imperfect" I would describe them as seriously and systemically flawed.
(gasp)....but..but..but...
the school system was overseen by the school district, the state, AND the federal guberment..
PLUS the teachers union.
with that amount of supervision how COULD it be anything but perfect?
my bubble has burst.
but your raise a good point when you say it would be quite impossible to ever produce enough food for everyone on earth using organic farming techniques
would that mean that we continue to do what we are presently doing or people will die?
does that mean that those who are complaining are advocates of genocide?
Well we can either use fertilizers derived from fossil fuels or we can have half as many humans or less. Most people don't understand that.
lucky for us the human growth rate is declining.
Once the 'hump' has passed, if it hasn't already, the population will decline also.
If you believe the,estimated and projections from those estimations, numbers...which I don't.
I don't think that there are NEAR that many people alive today.
India and China are hard to fathom, I believe there are that many of them. I don't buy their growth rate projection, it will turn negative in a few decades or sooner but for it to get back down to the two billion or so the earth can sustain without utilizing the Haber process it would have to be a significant negative rate for a while. As a consequence of all those women in China and India and Africa learning to read because of cheap smart phones they will start to have fewer children like women do in developed countries. Pretty soon we will know exactly how many people are in India once they have to use eye scans to conduct business.
the growth rate turned negative in 1962
the population increase should turn negative in a few years (see above)
what's the problem with the Haber Process? Just makes amonia. I grew up near a plant that did that.
Well, the 'bad thing' I see is spraying it all down with herbicide. First off, the herbicide is terrible for us and the environment. Second of all, if the corn is resistant to the herbicide, that would suggest it is the corn that is genetically modified to be resistant. I see how it is less work for the person growing the corn, but I don't feel like this is a good solution.
are you familiar with farming?
what's the alternative?
Yes. I AM familiar with farming, haha!
Im not sure what the immediate steps would be.
The problem stems from things being mass produced. The huge, factory farms that are producing inferior quality, inexpensive foods. They are only concerned with the bottom line and making as much profit as possible.
What would be better is going back in time to small farms, when things were grown responsibly and with respect to life. Yes, an area of 1000 acres of plowed land would very well be an erosion risk. A small farm with 10 acres plowed would not be an issue. And the land does not stay plowed like that for long. It sets for a short time to kill off pests and then the farmer plants it.
I agree, something has to change. Doing things like creating GMO crops, and spraying chemicals everywhere so large farm corporations can continue the atrocities they are doing, is not the answer.
I don't know how to change things. BUT I am not content to just shrug and keep eating that crap.
Instead I grow my own food. Without chemicals. In harmony with our land. In a way that will not leave the area depleted and poisoned.
It is a growing movement, growing your own food, and I hope it gains momentum. I think the only way to stop the huge commercial farms is to stop giving them our money buy purchasing their products.
Ok...let's assume everyone (somehow) moves back to the land and grows their own food.
uh...
who'd gonna build your computer, your tractor, your car, your tools?
who's gonna make your clothes....
If everyone is growing their own food who's gonna have the time to make live easier for you?
you say inexpensive food like it's a bad thing...odd that.
My husband is a farmer. Around 2500 acres (give or take, I forget lol, and that’s small for around here. He gets a little heated when he sees arguments like @squishysquid’s. (Love you, really do!!) But the thing of it is, without the farming we have today, the world could not be where it’s at today. Now, whether that is bad or good really all depends which view you look at it from.
I was born and raised on the Llano Estacado. Farmers there measure their fields by the square mile.
They produce cheap food
Poor people don't seem to complain much.
Wow, I didn't know your husband farmed such a large piece of land.
I can understand that he would get upset when his way of life is challenged.
I have no idea how he works his land or what even he grows. I would hope that he does everything in a way that respects the land and God's creation. Every situation is different and every crop needs different things.
Personally, I think creating GMO vegetables and spraying herbicides and pesticides over thousands of acres causes more harm than good. But, that is just my belief. :)
That is quite true, that the world would not be where it is today without the mass farming that has happened. I think good AND bad has come from that.
Either way, no matter what you believe, it is what it is and here we are.
Love you too and glad that we can amicably agree to disagree about things!
Robots will do all those things for us according to the futurists.
Robots (mechanization and automation) has been happening for a hundred years.
back in the day it took a farmer and many helpers to farm a small amount of land.
today it takes one guy and his machines, both owned and contracted, to farm a LOT of land.
but your imagination is limited.
in the future meat will be grown in a vat..
what about vegetables?
And the nutrient sources for vat produced meat will be what?
Technological solutions for a fee that replace natural environmental services provided without cost, are never as elegant.
And the nutrient sources for vat produced meat will be what?
Lab-grown 'clean' meat could be on sale by end of this year
Lab-Grown Meat Finally Available in Chicken Nugget Form
Lab-grown chicken strips, right now
sold in resturants already
Bistro In Vitro is the world's first lab-grown meat restaurant
Technological solutions for a fee that replace natural environmental services provided without cost, are never as elegant.
Strawman...no one said it would be without cost.
The cost WILL however, be cheaper than what is being paid now.
Seems pretty elegant to me.
Nothing dies.
Well, I know I am not offering a solution at all. At this point, I dont know if there IS a solution.
But, generally speaking, the way out of a hole is not by digging it deeper.
Im not saying inexpensive food is a bad thing in and of itself. (Although food laced with toxic chemicals IS.)
The problem is when the small farmers, the small businesses, cannot compete with mass production. That's why people get angry about the dirt cheap things coming in from China and elsewhere, it puts the people here out of a job.
Haha, and I never said EVERYONE needs to grow their own food. I DO think people should make an effort if they can. It doesnt take much time and space to grow a windowbox of herbs, or a tomato on the patio, but I realize not EVERYONE can do this. Back in the day, they also had people who's jobs did not involve growing food.
The issue is that over time more and more small farmers have been bought out or forced out of business by corporate giants. The same thing has happened in other areas, other types of business. That's why 'Mom and Pop stores are no longer a thing. Then they have a monopoly over the business and no one can compete with them. The 'Mom and Pop's' can't make a living with their business anymore and are forced to go and work for someone else.
Is this a problem?
Yes. I think so.
What is the solution?
I do not know.
Does the term luddite ring any bells?
how well has that EVER worked out?
Nope, did not ring any bells, so I Googled it.
a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woolen mills, which they believed was threatening their jobs
Hmmm... well, apparently THAT didn't work out...
:D
it didn't ring any bells?
really?
ahem.
well..for your information what you googled is correct.
it's also a generic term for those who are opposed to advancing technology.
what will all the buggy whip makers do for a living with all those new fangled horseless carraiges?
what will taxi drivers do for a living with Uber and even WORSE...robot cars?
what will.....(and the list goes on)
how did ANY of them work out?
is there any reason to think that it will be different this time?
What is the solution?
I do not know.
I do.
Higher and higher and more advanced technology.
Technology creates wealth.
wealth trickles down from the rich to the poor
(people in romania can make more money on steemit than from salary at a job...not to mention Venezuala)
Glad you have it all figured out! ;)
thank you.
Hi @everittdmickey
I am a born farmer and would suggest GMO is not good. I know of this and not only this attribute of GMOs but also to ones where worms does not eat your crop.
I agree it saves a lot of effort and money for workers to clean in between the crop and there are a lot of advantages to it but at what cost (referring to corn specifically)?
You do not only take away work from people trying to make a honest living but you are also advancing a health risk. I have not gone into detail as to what health issues this causes but it sounds like a few and it sounds serious. Maybe there is no health risk like a lot of people claim but this does not sound correct because there must be something wrong with crops which worms won't even eat.
The alternative is that we keep on farming the old fashion way and the state subsidize farmers which will allow not only healthier foods but also create work.
I have been wanting to do research on this for a long time but have not come around to it. Maybe I'll change my mind when I finally start but I doubt it. I hear a lot of stories, especially a link between the increased allergies among children and GMO and if there is one thing I will be overly conservative on, it is in a healthier direction.
Excellent points @dpl!
not using herbicides requires.
which leads to
and
are you ok with that?
Agreed it has a detrimental effect when it comes to erosion but what's your focus? The environment or health?
It's not possible to show impressive photos when it comes to the detrimental effect on the health of the people eating these crops.
Ironically herbicides used in sprying GMOs also has a bad effect on the environment it's just not possible to show it in such an impressive set of images.
But I agree with you, just letting this happen is not an option.
Oddly enough you make some statements then say that it's not possible to prove it.
Not impossible to prove. I refer specifically to impressive images as in your response which any person could see is not good.
Proof of GMO harmful effects:
(Image Source - Harvard.edu)
Proof of herbicides harmful effects:
Is this proof? That is why I say, the topic is still to be researched as anyone can write stuff. Finding the correct information is where it gets tricky.
Hence my conclusion earlier, for now I will stay on the safe side and not eat GMO as far as possible. My reasoning is the same as yours. We look at the images and see that conventional planting methods is damaging the environment. I look at the worms not eating the crops and think to myself there must be a good reason far that.
ok...you go ahead and farm organically.
Is it ok if I decide I'd rather eat genetically engineered food?
Is this proof?
nope...it's opinion.
what I posted you can see with your own two eyes..
I look at the worms not eating the crops and think to myself there must be a good reason far that
that's an entirely different subject. I was speaking of no till..
I don't know if it's a bad thing or not. In general I'm a huge fan of technology. No way do I want to give up my motorized vehicle, HVAC system, short and long term food storage units, let alone the modern medical advancements that keep me alive (better living through chemistry). I've never experienced soil erosion problems because of tilling my garden but reading the comments it seams it can be a real problem. As far as modifying our food from mother natures design to support an increased population, I'm not a fan. As far as I know the increase in terminal diseases is mother natures way of rebalancing the system. Plus I think the population is way too high already. I'm just not smart enough to figure out how to get away from most people without giving up the modern conveniences I enjoy.
As far as modifying our food from mother natures design to support an increased population, I'm not a fan
too late. Everything you eat has been genetically modified.
As far as I know the increase in terminal diseases is mother natures way of rebalancing the system.
Terminal diseases are decreasing and people are living longer.
Plus I think the population is way too high already
then you must have some idea of what the optimum number is...what is it?
I'm just not smart enough to figure out how to get away from most people without giving up the modern conveniences I enjoy
get a job on a cruise ship.
I'm sure you are right that at least most of the food I eat has been genetically modified, but I don't have to believe that's a good thing.
I will admit that the number of diseases considered terminal are decreasing due to advances in medical technologies and I am personally grateful for those advances. That doesn't mean mother nature has lost the war.
As far as the optimum population goes, I am not a progressive liberal so I would never impose my "feelings" on anyone, but if I live somewhere that I am starving to death, I'm not sure the idea of having a bunch of kids that might starve to death doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Stupid will always survive, just don't ask me to support it. Some people need a lot more people around to make them happy. I'm just not that kind of person.
Although joining a cruise ship would technically remove me from "most" people, it would condemn me to an extremely over crowded and confined space. I just might rethink my thought that suicide is stupid.
Dance with wolves.