RE: Hiring 1 Developer to Build a P2P Steem/USD Gateway!
So, I think it's important to make people aware of potential issues they will be faced with as users of the system you're proposing. Essentially I think you're proposing a system very similar to localbitcoins, but for altcoins and maybe with better reputation management (full disclosure, I've never used localbitcoins).
The big danger is that individual users, by repeatedly offering to sell or by crypto for money from the US or to US residents, will be considered to be money transmitters under fincen regulations. Probably the highest risk will be to US residents, since they are the most likely subject to an attempted prosecution.
There's already cases of this type, here's some related links I found on a quick search of the topic:
https://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-trader-pleads-guilty-money-transmitter-charge/
https://localbitcoins.com/forums/#!/general-discussion#money-transmitter-licenses
Please understand, I'm not a fan of any of the above, and I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but I think it's important that people understand the risks for a legal entanglement.
Legal issues aside there is already an open source tool that leverages the escrow functionality of the Steem blockchain that would work for P2P transactions (I pointed this out in the comments below but I am replying here for visibility):
https://steemit.com/escrow/@xtar/open-source-standalone-gui-for-steem-escrow-transactions
Nah, people aren’t considered “money transmitters”, at least not yet :) Follow the cases that you read up on coindesk (a laughable “news” outlet, unfortunately!) and you’ll find that the case will get thrown out like every other case preceding it.
Given they pled guilty according to the article, this seems unlikely. But if you find out otherwise, I would be very interested to know about it, so let me know.
Other people pleaded guilty, too. (Remember those 2 Florida men?) And the case was thrown out. Follow these things closer and stop spreading FUD :)
The situation is very concerning for sure and it seems like everyone of these cases I see they always pled guilty. It never goes to trial with a jury. I have a feeling the people suddenly are facing 30 years or something insane and decide to plead guilty in hopes of ONLY 3 or 4 YEARS in Club FED for selling a digital coin.
I said 4 years ago that in Arizona it would be legal to buy guns from a random person in a Walgreens parking lot but it wouldn't be legal to sell a digital coin. Sure enough I was right....... they nailed a couple guys up in the Phoenix area for selling on LocalBitcoins. I'm too scared to even look up what happened to those guys. And yet no punishment for anyone involved in the 2008 financial crisis.
It even scares me to see the thumbnail for this video because it gives me the chills that they are sending this guy to Club FED for basically NOTHING. That being said I wish anyone luck who is trying to navigate the confusing laws.
There is a very popular phrase among political philosophers which says:
I'll just leave it at that.
Anyways, some laws are created just for the lols.
Coindesk is the new crypto equivalent of Dailymail. If the government interferes with the way people send and receive money peer to peer--then why not abolish fiat altogether?
At times of great socio-financial revolution such as this, the irrationality of the few powerful becomes apparent for all to see.
@blocktrades thank you for again making a reply to this post because your guidance was valuable last time to the evolution of this and is again. Our primary purpose with this exchange is to empower users in places where no reliable option exists or where using Bitcoin first with often very high fees is the only option. Currently this description fits most countries in the world while not including the USA.
Given that there are several reliable exchanges available in the USA to change into fiat, the majority of the problems seem to be with laws in the USA, and my main vision for this is global, we may opt to exclude users from the USA and/or place additional limits on using this in the USA.
With doing this to benefit users, we obviously have the highest interest in protecting users from potential problems especially from money laundering and prison time.
We're doing almost exactly this with Bitcash (www.bitcash.org)
We'll have a reputation system. It will be peer-to-peer.
Proof of concept/MVP is at: trade.bitcash.org and our wallet is in maintenance mode.
The concern @blocktrades has is understandable, but I think for smaller volumes peer-to-peer exchanges will be fine.
My main focus right now is on this project. We use the Bitshares platform because it's easier to swap 1:1 between dollars for bitUSD and then go back and forth from Steem. I think you can do one just for Steem, but you'll be dealing with order books since Steem dollars don't hold a peg. Best.
yp great!
this will be huuuuge!
@steemrollin thank you for letting us know you are working on this project! I hope it goes well and think we benefit from getting as many projects like yours functional as possible! I got an error on the sign up page.
Thanks @jerrybanfield! Yes our wallet is in maintenance mode right now since it still is in MVP mode and didn't want too many people signing up (we get a lot of traffic from people thinking our website is related to Bitcoin cash).. but we'll get back up soon .. thx!
Amen to that @jerrybanfield! I've been ripped off several times already during the process of cashing-in and cashing-out of my small Steem/SBD earnings--not to mention the government is always wanting to scan my face every time I register for a local exchange services.
This initiative is very timely not only for the Steemit community but for the whole cryptocurrency community in general.
With all due respect to Bitcoin--I think it's about time for people to have a viable option to buy and sell cryptocurrency efficiently with zero transaction fee.
For us in the developing countries like the Philippines--who needs bank accounts and all those bullshit AML/KYC verification when you can have MTO services in every corner with near-instant payment processing. Although a bank account can be optional at times for those looking to trade peer-to-peer locally for maximum fee-less payment method similar to LocalBitcoins which offers a variety of Banks, MTO/Remittance and PayPal as a mode of payment.
@introvertspeaks exactly thank you for giving a clear example of what we are looking to create and what it is needed because you sharing about the challenges cashing out in the Philippines along with AML/KYC being unnecessary where you are transacting with anyone outside the USA shows us clearly that when we think global, we see a huge need for a Steem/fiat exchange that is user to user!
YW! This is very important to me because my application for KYC approval at Coins.ph has been the worst experience I've ever had.
They kept rejecting my legal document again and again solely based on their incompetence to determine what is genuine identification material and what is not--despite the fact that I wholeheartedly sent them the original photograph.
Out of desperation, I diligently made a Google search to which I found out I can cash out anytime using the LocalBitcoins escrow service without having to submit anything and with higher buying rates than them (Coins.ph)--since I can choose which buyer offers the best price.
It is important to note though that an independent reputation score system will be in place outside of Steemit to properly tag those scammers who are just looking to make free money with their deceptive activity.
thanks for all the help
Living comments for the upvotes.
hey @jerrybanfield,I have no words to say about you, bcoz you are to much intelligent and talented. I have learn many things from you like programming . I am very thankful to u , i really enjoy your concepts, you are my teacher. Thank you much for every thing <3
keep sharing sir <3
@sibtainali
Most Western European countries don't look kindly on unauthorized money transmitters either. Financial regulations is by far the most troublesome part of the deal. This is why becoming a notary requires years of study, and they are compensated very well for it. Users should exerce caution.
Jerry, this is a magnificent plan of action but once again, how can we avoid the Exchanges. The trouble in the U.S is just the start... It will spread worldwide extremely fast, like a virus. The moment you give your ID to the exchanges and link your bank account, your known - this is just not viable. How can we can we get around this please?
Do not use your bank account as a payment method. Instead, you use MTO and remittance services like Western Union, Moneygram, Xoom or Payoneer in order to receive and send crypto payments peer to peer.
Second is to avoid those retarded exchanges like Poloniex and Bittrex which are both government puppets.
Binance has been the exchange of choice for those small to medium volume traders with 2 BTC maximum withdrawal per day--without the need for KYC verification.
And since Steem/SBD are not listed on Binance for whatever reasons, you may want to register at Openledger or Hitbtc to exchange your Steem/SBD asset with other cryptos--no need for KYC shit.
Thank you for the helpful reply @introvertspeaks - I'm familiar with Western Union & Moneygram but once you go over a certain limit, were back to ID. Payoneer might work better for the U.S only. In the U.K they forced me to provide bank details and Gov I.D even before I made the 1st transaction and then refused to delete my account when I asked and to add insult to injury, they were nice enough to block my account so I couldn't leave, so sadly, after all of this, I had to tell them where to go... So pretty much a dictatorship just like the rest if your'e based here.
Apart from this, I've also used Paxful.com with Amazon Gift vouchers which is connected with hefty fees but Anonymous none the less .
However, I know we now have Bitcoin Atm's available with similar painful fees but still effective if you're willing to pay the price. Binance I'm def on, seems fair, & I've traded & tried to transfer to my wallets but they also have a limit on the amount you need within your account before withdrawal is allowed. Any thoughts on the conception of Atomic Swaps - Seems quite exciting! I'll def check out your other 2 suggestions though.
There are plenty of ways to get around with this actually--only that as you've pointed out it costs more than the conventional route like cryptocurrency exchange.
You may also want to use an e-currency as a bridge, like Perfect Money and fund your account with fiat via wire transfer and exchange them with various crypto asset using a gateway that supports Perfect Money. You can use the Best Change monitor to get the best price automatically.
But if your government is really implementing a maximum bank transaction cap, then you can use your PayPal account to buy Perfect Voucher online and convert them into Perfect Money with zero conversion fee. Purchasing vouchers online I guess is beyond the scope of government regulation, IMO.
I live in the Philippines, and in time if there is a buyer who is willing to buy my crypto asset using Perfect Money--I'd be willing to accept the deal.
Atomic Swap will be one of the most innovative upgrades in blockchain technology in the years to come. It has the potential to make exchanges unnecessary. But the thing is, it is only feasible for crypto-to-crypto transactions. Anything that involves fiat is still problematic.
The keyword here is to bring crypto payments into mainstream adaption--that way we could have efficient and seamless way to pay our bills.
Your'e a genius. Followed. Thank you
Shelley we will be building trust here primarily through what we contribute on Steem and we may combine a third party identity verification service to help show that who we are on Steem is linked to a "real" person according to a government which then will help us transact without revealing personal information. The methods of payment which reveal the least personal information will probably be preferred and it will be up to users to decide what to use and who to trust based on our recommendations.
I personally think it unappealing to many users requiring them to submit personal identification document--even if a third party service will be the one validating it. It basically ruins the essence of cryptocurrency, IMO.
How about giving the option to encrypt our username so that it will appear differently on the Steem peer-to-peer market?
Hence, our payment details will not be associated with our Steem account username. Is that a likelihood technically?
thanks for all the help. I am still getting a grasp on things.. as a trader mostly a chartist. i wish someone had this on the Meta4 platform. if you know of any i would appreciate the direction. thanks for all the help already.
Thanks for keeping us informed :)
Thank you for the videos. I am trying to weed through all this and learn. The videos help.
please vote me and follow me
Sorry to be a Debbie Downer but Blocktrades is more than correct. Jerry, you need a fat legal budget for this. If you need a top lawyer to CYA, message me and I'll forward you the contact. Get it wrong and you could land in a BOP facility faster than you can say 'grand jury.'
trying to get my head around it all now.
This is not great news I am in the USA and would love to buy others Steem and SBD legally for cash but the laws seem so sketchy and would not want to get in any trouble but I think it should be made for world wide use please find a way to make it legal for the USA
I believe there was a mistake made when I transfered SBD's for Steem Power about 10 Days ago... I'm not sure of any other way to reach you...
COIN MAN by @pocketechange
Send an email to [email protected] with details about the transaction and we'll take a look.
Also to add to this I think it’s better to find a few developers. It will cost a bit more BUT should one developer get a better offer, go rouge, get hit by a bus, retire, etc. you’ll still have a fall back dev. Don’t underestimate the time it takes to get familiar with a new codebase!
please vote me
We probably will be collaborating with an organization which runs a witness and has multiple developers available!
Dear will you please share video tutorial on leasing SP who can lease and who can lease to different boosters, which is the best way. Thanks
That is... good to know. That would certainly be an unpleasant surprise to the uninformed.
Isn't this exactly what you told him when he proposed this idea previously?
It does look very similar which is surprising given I devoted a significant part of this post to addressing exactly what @blocktrades said last time including education for users regarding applicable laws for the transactions based on location. I am also willing to exclude US users completely if the developer wants to do this and our legal advisers suggest this approach for simplicity and safety of global users.
Yes, but he seems to have misinterpreted what I said and assumed it only applied to the business doing the matching and not to the participants, and that my objection was therefore overcome by the fact that the matching system doesn't handle the money.
I suppose he thought I hadn't bothered to read his post fully and understand it. I can see why he might have thought that; this last post was pretty long and I confess I didn't read all of it. Anyways, I hope my concerns are clarified now.
Did you see where I devoted an entire section to talking about this in the post because of what you wrote in the first post? Here is the most relevant section based entirely on what you said:
Hold on, this seems to imply that the solution offsets the responsibility for fiscal due diligence onto the individuals undertaking the transaction.
Isn’t that hat hugely risky for everybody individuals using the service? I mean finance can be pretty impenetrable at the best of times. All you need is a few bad news stories and then you’ve a massive negative spotlight hanging over the thing. You really should be looking to protect users of your system, not tell them they’re on their own.
I know we all want more mainstream access, but shortcutting it isn’t the answer.
@fourfourfun the regulations are most applicable to people running entire businesses to transact money which is not obvious in the reply. An individual cashing out a little bit in earnings is unlikely to have any issues while someone buying and selling millions of dollars of Steem without compliance with the law is likely to run into the same problems as localbitcoins.
We respect users most by starting with a foundation of trust and assisting with education. Our current exchanges are based on the assumption users cannot be trusted which is why escrows and heavy restrictions are in place. People that are trusted are free to do what they please because there is no fear of what will be done. Our exchange will educate people on best practices and laws. When users abuse this trust, legal repercussions may occur.
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No thanks.
@blocktrades I agree with you, we have to pay attention with the regulations.... And in my country there aren't yet!!!
@yanosh01 exactly which is why we need an exchange for Italy that is easy to use! I think global first in what I do which helps me see outside of the rules where I live now!
@jerrybanfield the idea is very interesting. I'll wait some news
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It is just another publication nothing more, false promises do not waste time.
You are obviously an expert on bullshit post.
This is a very sensitive issue that requires better acesorameinto in the legal part! It is important to know the regulations inherent to the topic or those that are being proposed. In my country Venezuela there are no regulations but we are interested in reliable sources of exchange and in a fair manner. And that approach that you are giving is very successful!