Funny you should mention that. I was just talking to andu about it.
I can't really see it happening. Which of the three tokens would we use?
SP is right out I presume, because it isn't available to withdraw.
STEEM is no use as a currency, because of its massive inflation rate. It is designed not to be held, so I think it would be very hard to get any investors to hold it in a dice site. The incentive is to get rid of STEEM tokens as quickly as possible, in exchange for SP or SBD.
So that leaves SBD. But running a dice site that accepts SBD seems dangerously close to running a site for USD, which doesn't seem like a good idea. Unless SBD ends up not holding its value like it is meant to, in which case see the previous argument.
Am I missing anything? The Steem tokens seem like they are designed to work well for the Steem devs, but not for the rest of us. But I'm still very new to Steem, and probably misunderstand a bunch of it.
SBD is designed to be perfect for this, with fast finality, price stability, and no transaction fees, but if you are concerned about the legalities of it then you can't take advantage. That's unfortunate, but understandable.
You are correct that STEEM is not a good fit, unless you could somehow work out a way for the site to power up and use that as backing for the gambling bankroll, as a sort of staking pool. There would need to be restrictions on the rate of withdraws of both bankroll funds and winnings, but that might be workable given that most gambling on JD is small, so could easily be covered by the 1%-per-week power downs.
I don't really understand why you think the tokens are better for the devs. Anyone can power up; the devs get no special treatment on it.
unless you could somehow work out a way for the site to power up and use that as backing for the gambling bankroll
That's an interesting idea.
I'm pretty confused about how this all works. Both SP and SBD earn rewards for holding them - is that right? I can't hold SP in my own wallet, and can only hold it on steemit.com? But SBD and STEEM can be withdrawn into my own local wallet and freely traded? Except I seem to remember there's a 1 week delay with SBD withdrawals. Can I hold SBD in my own wallet and earn rewards, or do I only get rewards if I have steemit.com hold them? Am I totally misunderstanding everything?
(Edit: where would I even find the official steem wallet client for download? Google isn't helping me find it)
I don't really understand why you think the tokens are better for the devs
I guess because I figure they premined a whole bunch of tokens for free whereas the rest of us have to buy them. But maybe I'm even wrong about that. How was the initial distribution done?
[ I'd like to reply to smooth's comment, but I see no 'reply' button. I guess we hit the maximum depth? drinkzya's comment at the same level also has no reply button ]
Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't understanding that this site (steemit.com) is really just a fancy block explorer, and that it's the blockchain that matters, not the site.
The owners of steemit could decide to remove all posts they deem racist from their site if they want to, but they couldn't remove them from the blockchain, and everyone else would be free to make their own version of steemit.com which didn't censor the posts. In much the same way that the blockchain.info Bitcoin wallet isn't really where anyone's money is. The money is on the blockchain, and the b.i wallet website is just a way of interacting with the blockchain. If I dislike b.i's wallet I am free to switch to a different site (or even run my own client). Is that right? A good way of understanding things?
@dooglus Nice to see you here. If you are ever interested, I have already purchased the steemroll.com domain just for this if you ever wanted to possibly do something together. You can reach me in steemit.chat
The web wallet/site/app that runs on steemit.com is also there now (was released a bit later)
I guess because I figure they premined a whole bunch of tokens for free whereas the rest of us have to buy them. But maybe I'm even wrong about that. How was the initial distribution done?
I still don't quite follow the logic on why that makes the inflationary STEEM token itself good for them, when everyone else can avoid the inflation by using SP too. If anything, given their large SP holdings, the restrictions on liquidity of SP hurts them as much or more than anyone else, but in any case, here's some info about the launch.
It was effectively (but not literally) an 80% premine (though not quite free; they had to compete with a few other miners and did apparently spend money to do this). They launched with a public bitcointalk thread (still there) but there were no instructions or other information so only those able to figure it out from the code were able to mine it. It was openly stated at this time why the developers were doing this.
The plan (then and now) for the 80% is to give away 40% (every new account needs coins and receives a minimum balance–currently 3 SP–for free), keep 20%, and sell 20% to pay for development. This process is reasonably transparent and can be tracked by watching the 'steemit' account and the ones fed from there ('steem' creates the new accounts for example).
I'm pretty confused about how this all works. Both SP and SBD earn rewards for holding them - is that right? I can't hold SP in my own wallet, and can only hold it on steemit.com? But SBD and STEEM can be withdrawn into my own local wallet and freely traded? Except I seem to remember there's a 1 week delay with SBD withdrawals. Can I hold SBD in my own wallet and earn rewards, or do I only get rewards if I have steemit.com hold them? Am I totally misunderstanding everything?
SBD currently earns 10% interest (rate is variable) and SP earns anti-dilution payments that offset most of the STEEM inflation. You can hold SP (or STEEM or SBD) in your own wallet with your own private keys, and there is no disadvantage to doing so in terms of rewards, etc. The web site is really just a web wallet that gives you a view of the blockchain. There are no restrictions at all on transfers of STEEM or SBD. SP is locked up and can only be converted to STEEM 1/104 per week (with a one week delay before first conversion when starting the process). SBD can be converted to about 1 USD worth of STEEM with a one-week delay, but this is an optional function that supports the pegging of its value and never required (alternately you can transfer it and/or trade it on a regular exchange or via the internal market with no delays)
Your comments about the removal of racist posts from steemit.com and about using an alternate blockchain view are correct. Not hard to do in fact, since you can just download the source to the steemit.com web site from their github and host your own.
BTW, here is another explorer for the same blockchain hosted by a community member which provides a bit more low-level detail: https://steemd.com. You can also use that as a conventional block explorer using b/blocknum and tx/txid paths, though I don't see where it has a search box.
[ I'd like to reply to smooth's comment, but I see no 'reply' button. I guess we hit the maximum depth? drinkzya's comment at the same level also has no reply button ]
Dang, I just upvoted the comment this is from and now put it above the comment it is replying to.
Am I missing anything? The Steem tokens seem like they are designed to work well for the Steem devs, but not for the rest of us. But I'm still very new to Steem, and probably misunderstand a bunch of it.
You are pretty correct about it. But, I guess, you'll not be among the rest of us. They'll shower SBD on you pretty soon to show carrot to the gambling crowd.
Funny you should mention that. I was just talking to andu about it.
I can't really see it happening. Which of the three tokens would we use?
SP is right out I presume, because it isn't available to withdraw.
STEEM is no use as a currency, because of its massive inflation rate. It is designed not to be held, so I think it would be very hard to get any investors to hold it in a dice site. The incentive is to get rid of STEEM tokens as quickly as possible, in exchange for SP or SBD.
So that leaves SBD. But running a dice site that accepts SBD seems dangerously close to running a site for USD, which doesn't seem like a good idea. Unless SBD ends up not holding its value like it is meant to, in which case see the previous argument.
Am I missing anything? The Steem tokens seem like they are designed to work well for the Steem devs, but not for the rest of us. But I'm still very new to Steem, and probably misunderstand a bunch of it.
SBD is designed to be perfect for this, with fast finality, price stability, and no transaction fees, but if you are concerned about the legalities of it then you can't take advantage. That's unfortunate, but understandable.
You are correct that STEEM is not a good fit, unless you could somehow work out a way for the site to power up and use that as backing for the gambling bankroll, as a sort of staking pool. There would need to be restrictions on the rate of withdraws of both bankroll funds and winnings, but that might be workable given that most gambling on JD is small, so could easily be covered by the 1%-per-week power downs.
I don't really understand why you think the tokens are better for the devs. Anyone can power up; the devs get no special treatment on it.
Hey smooth. Thanks for the upvote. :)
That's an interesting idea.
I'm pretty confused about how this all works. Both SP and SBD earn rewards for holding them - is that right? I can't hold SP in my own wallet, and can only hold it on steemit.com? But SBD and STEEM can be withdrawn into my own local wallet and freely traded? Except I seem to remember there's a 1 week delay with SBD withdrawals. Can I hold SBD in my own wallet and earn rewards, or do I only get rewards if I have steemit.com hold them? Am I totally misunderstanding everything?
(Edit: where would I even find the official steem wallet client for download? Google isn't helping me find it)
I guess because I figure they premined a whole bunch of tokens for free whereas the rest of us have to buy them. But maybe I'm even wrong about that. How was the initial distribution done?
[ I'd like to reply to smooth's comment, but I see no 'reply' button. I guess we hit the maximum depth? drinkzya's comment at the same level also has no reply button ]
Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't understanding that this site (steemit.com) is really just a fancy block explorer, and that it's the blockchain that matters, not the site.
The owners of steemit could decide to remove all posts they deem racist from their site if they want to, but they couldn't remove them from the blockchain, and everyone else would be free to make their own version of steemit.com which didn't censor the posts. In much the same way that the blockchain.info Bitcoin wallet isn't really where anyone's money is. The money is on the blockchain, and the b.i wallet website is just a way of interacting with the blockchain. If I dislike b.i's wallet I am free to switch to a different site (or even run my own client). Is that right? A good way of understanding things?
@dooglus Nice to see you here. If you are ever interested, I have already purchased the steemroll.com domain just for this if you ever wanted to possibly do something together. You can reach me in steemit.chat
Wallet (CLI-only): https://github.com/steemit/steem
The web wallet/site/app that runs on steemit.com is also there now (was released a bit later)
I still don't quite follow the logic on why that makes the inflationary STEEM token itself good for them, when everyone else can avoid the inflation by using SP too. If anything, given their large SP holdings, the restrictions on liquidity of SP hurts them as much or more than anyone else, but in any case, here's some info about the launch.
It was effectively (but not literally) an 80% premine (though not quite free; they had to compete with a few other miners and did apparently spend money to do this). They launched with a public bitcointalk thread (still there) but there were no instructions or other information so only those able to figure it out from the code were able to mine it. It was openly stated at this time why the developers were doing this.
The plan (then and now) for the 80% is to give away 40% (every new account needs coins and receives a minimum balance–currently 3 SP–for free), keep 20%, and sell 20% to pay for development. This process is reasonably transparent and can be tracked by watching the 'steemit' account and the ones fed from there ('steem' creates the new accounts for example).
SBD currently earns 10% interest (rate is variable) and SP earns anti-dilution payments that offset most of the STEEM inflation. You can hold SP (or STEEM or SBD) in your own wallet with your own private keys, and there is no disadvantage to doing so in terms of rewards, etc. The web site is really just a web wallet that gives you a view of the blockchain. There are no restrictions at all on transfers of STEEM or SBD. SP is locked up and can only be converted to STEEM 1/104 per week (with a one week delay before first conversion when starting the process). SBD can be converted to about 1 USD worth of STEEM with a one-week delay, but this is an optional function that supports the pegging of its value and never required (alternately you can transfer it and/or trade it on a regular exchange or via the internal market with no delays)
@doolgus, yes reply depth is annoying.
Your comments about the removal of racist posts from steemit.com and about using an alternate blockchain view are correct. Not hard to do in fact, since you can just download the source to the steemit.com web site from their github and host your own.
BTW, here is another explorer for the same blockchain hosted by a community member which provides a bit more low-level detail: https://steemd.com. You can also use that as a conventional block explorer using b/blocknum and tx/txid paths, though I don't see where it has a search box.
Dang, I just upvoted the comment this is from and now put it above the comment it is replying to.
You are pretty correct about it. But, I guess, you'll not be among the rest of us. They'll shower SBD on you pretty soon to show carrot to the gambling crowd.