Non-GumpyCompliant vote sellers are now to be used exclusively to profit from the reward pool!
From now on Bid-bots that are not GumpyCompliant are to be used exclusively to profit from the reward pool (not post promotion). That's already about 95% of what they are being used for so it shouldn't make much of a difference to them!
All legit post promotion on quality content using non-compliant bots are at risk of being GrumpyFlagged!
What is GrumpyCompliance? : GrupyCompliance was annouced with a top post 14 days ago. and a reminder sent 7 days later. It is a new requirement for vote selling services to refuse and refund purchases for votes on posts that are more than 3.5 day old.
It is intended to fight the nothing at stake people from profiting from buying upvotes on low quality content at the last few hours.
1. Gives us more time to flag them (3.5 days > 12h).
2. Increase their risk with STEEM/SBD price fluctuation.
(normal post promoters are spending SBD that may not be worth much more than 1 USD when it pays out.
3. More at stake.
We will be able to wipe out 3.5 days worth of their reward sucking posts instead of only last 12h. (they post crap and buy votes all day long)
Sounds fair enough @grumpycat. Easy to fall into the greed of buying votes at the last moment though.
And thanks for the steembottracker info. Hadn't come across it yet and was using minnowbooster only so far. Now I know of more bots I can use.
I get that they are trying to curb last miniute post promotion but if the system wasnt designed for that but was designed to allow such promotion then what is the problem? Why do people need to be Grumpy compliant certainly not just because a whale says so. this is like creating centralization within steemit. Next whales will be making other Rule bots that punish people for whatever they want. Also what is the appeal process for mistakes when thy are made(or are we sol if that happens)? Just curious that this isue wasnt brought to the attention of all steemians and voted on(at least by the witnesses). Seriously this may not be a super big deal but the underlying issue of people being able to create and enforce laws that the community hasn't agreed upon is a HUGE issue. Correct me if i am wrong or misguided on any of my suppositions. @grumpycat im just trying to figure out what gave you the power/right to enact what equates to a law with this bot?
You should really see how these people abuse bot votes at the eleventh hour:
https://steemit.com/steem/@grumpycat/sample-of-nothing-at-stake-peoples-empowered-on-6th-day-by-voting-bots
Interestingly, their timezone is in South Asia around 3-7 am US time zone where, bidding competition for bots are lower. They used big bot votes such as @upme, @buildawhale @appreatiator with total $6-$10 or more SBD. They also reinvest earned SBD and withdraw some regularly. Easiest spamming business based on ROI in the world.
Please go through these users post including this https://steemit.com/@banglabhai.
Reason behind 3.5 days compliance rule is that when they used low level contents (e.g. mostly copy and paste Youtube videos) for bot voting, they will be prone to SBD fluctuation and flagging for plagiarism. This will reduce the abuse of rewardpool. Witnesseses and STINC are slow to react, therefore, some whales have to take action. Their actions are self-servicing. If they don't work for good purposes of STEEM, their investment will go down and they have the largest stake.
There is so much garbage I can't find anything legit to flag!
Yeah and you're giving yourself 200 dollars for a bullshit sentence?
hahha dude
You didn't flag it so why do you call it bullshit?
Not wasting my votes on such crap :-)
@grumpycat I wrote you a question on another post but dint get an answer. I really dont understand you. If you want to help you are supossed to be a rolemodel. Now another comment with more value than every posts I wrote together.Would be happy to get an answer for the community.
"@grumpycat I dont get it. I agree with your rules. But shouldnt you be a kind of a rolemodel. You are upvoting simple comments with big upvotes and taking much of the reward pool.That affect the reward pool. Even with one comment you got you over 185 dollar. I wrote much posts with much effort but I think all together are less worth than your comment I hope you will act like you teach people.
I have some ideas how you could help the steemit community. Check out post that dont earn much and support underrated posts. Steem rises and falls with the users."
Good luck getting an answer to this.
I also do not understand: why can not I get 140 usd for a photo, and you can get 190 usd for a usual comment? Not fair...
I guess he has a lot of SP
@ekaterinka exactly
@grumpycat, I think I'm starting to see the light. Sorry for questioning you in an earlier post. Things are starting to make sense now. Go grumpycat go!
Are you fucking joking?
It’s nice when that “aha” moment happens and you realize that grumpy knows what’s up! Kudos to you.
Are you fucking joking?
Kind of makes one feel a little silly for complaining before they see the light, lol
I guess my 8% downvote for a brand new postnatal using one of these bots was just a warning ... it could have Brennan 100% downvote very easily
I'm coming for you @grumpycat
true.. somebody posting a stupid photo or wishing a happy new year gets 100z or 1000z of $$ its so stupid.. now i know why whales and their friends make somuch... Thank you for your support..
its batter not to flag someone you should build relationships on this platform so instead of giving flag just ignore the post you don't like
@grumpycat 👌👍
Your a piece of shit scammer g-cat, and you know it. Flag yourself!
Wow After taking a look at some of that information you provided it clarified much of the issue for me. I mostly didn't understand The value of such policing but it makes sense when you look at it as they are spamming. I don't use bots personally, but my hope is that if someone malevolent creates a similar apparatus and it IS unfair then the whales will do something about it (downvote to oblivion). Thanks for your feedback its a good premise but still not a fan of the Grumpy Cat Shit. Just look at your quality comment compared to its pure shit comment and how much rewards they are earning for it. They could at least help those who are being helpful. anyways thanks for your input
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@mhasanali381/forget-bitcoins-why-ico-s-will-outdo-ipo-s-for-years-to-come
The thing is, the system is really designed for much of anything. The bid bots are a creation of users of Steemit. There are basically no laws, so it's up to the users to decide what is bad or good for the long term of the platform. No one can really make laws, but the powerful can flex their muscles. Grumpycat sees this as being bad for the platform, so he's enforcing it with his muscle.
Everyone seems to conveniently overlook that the Terms of Service forbid bots:
17.1.3. Use any robot, spider, crawler, scraper or other automated means or interface not provided by us to access our Services or to extract data;
When you are using a upvote bot, you are effectively : Hiring ( Using ) a bot ( robot ), to upvote your post ( Accessing our Services ).
I think @grumpycat is taking a step in the right direction, and I hope more whales can step up to discourage the use of bots, outright. This is supposed to be a 'proof-of-brains' platform, exactly how does paying a fee to a robot fit into the equation? I see bots as the main obstacle that could ruin steem, many newcomers here see the botting on their first day, wonder why so many people abandon their accounts? Do you think steemit will become a household name like this?
Oh there is this great platform called steemit, all you have to do is write a great blog everyday, then pay a service 500 dollars to promote it for you - it's the future of Social Media!
Get Real.
Do you forget that most of the bots are provided by Steem witnesses? Is a huge business, for a vote people pay a lot of money, so from one side they get their full vote in SBD or Steem, and then since their vote is so heavy it will bring an extra 25% as curator.
Thing is people is so greedy that they will wait until last minute to bid, making their money worthless and at the same time of those who play by the rules.
Hola, estoy de acyerdo contigo. Pienso que estan creando un nuevo problema...
¿Asumen si hago que un post de calidad, no deberia comprar votos?
Es importante reglarlo, pero dichos bots podrain mantenerse bajo otro esquema de voto
Hi, I'm with you. I think you are creating a new problem ...
Do they assume if I make a quality post, I should not buy votes?
It is important to regulate it, but these bots could be maintained under another voting scheme
Ideally, you should not need to buy votes. A quality post should gain votes because it is a good quality post.
This is failing to happen specifically because of voting bots. If they were not in the equation, good quality posts would get upvoted naturally.
Youre right menn.
Give the Upvote... Steem for life
I am new to @steem and I had no idea about this. I just poored a lot of money into voting bots for the first time (evar) this week. I probably won't do it again because I lost my shirt thanks to @grumpycat. I get that greedy people hurt things, but stealing from unsuspecting people that are new and just trying to get started in the community...YOU ARE SCUM @grumpycat. Downvoting is already wrong in itself because you are literally taking money away from people.
@grumpycat If you're going to do something despicable like downvote people that hired voting bots, you should at least leave them with the amount they put in. That way, you're just taking away their profits. Instead, you're taking what they put in. You don't know where that money comes from. It could be really hard for them to make and you take it just by clicking your mouse. It's horrible.
You're not getting it I think. @grumpycat is not downvoting people at random here. He/she/it is downvoting those users who use the voting bots at the last hour to suck up upvotes.
Now I think it is fair enough punishment for them as most of these users are boosting their non qualitative posts very near to pay out and hence decreasing the voting power of the bots for genuine users.
That may be, but they're not very selective either; otherwise, more meaningful downvotes would be made. They may not be random, but it's not better than just throwing mud on a wall and seeing what sticks either.
You can't just hurt people and take the moral high ground thinking you help more than you hurt, so that's ok. Taking is taking. Stealing is stealing. The point of the downvote is to adjust the value of the post.
I worked for hours in the AZ heat to get nice sunset photos on my way overpriced camera that I really can't afford. I used the upvote bot to set a fair value for the photos and the time I put into taking them. Then @grumpycat comes and downvotes it to $5.
Yeah. Maybe they're not random, but they might as well be random. This is a ABSOLUTE ABUSE OF A DOWNVOTE. The point is to adjust and prevent abuse, but this account has taken it to the extreme and it's just abuse on the other end. There is no balance.
Also, @grumpycat dinged me on a post that was only 2.5 days old https://steemit.com/sportsphotography/@r351574nc3/tucson-soccerfest-sunset#@grumpycat/re-r351574nc3-tucson-soccerfest-sunset-20180117t025602468z
I might be leaning more toward random.
I still think it is not random. It is not only about the time, read the first few lines on the comment and you'll understand, I hope.
I've read it. You'll have to spell it out for me. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Let's say for the sake of argument it's not random, then it's arbitrary. @grumpycat arbitrarily chooses. Here are my points.
Even better...@grumpycat also uses @appreciator
So maybe it's not random. If it's not, then it's definitely based on an arbitrary set of rules that can be changed on a whim because they have nothing to do with actually compliant voting bots or 6th day voting. It's more like
Maybe I don't get it, but I'll say something about what everyone else (including @grumpycat) doesn't get. The purpose of downvotes is not to correct voting bots. Downvotes are to correct rewards. I think we all look at them wrong when it comes to @grumpycat. We think
But in reality, the downvote is intended to adjust the payout to what the community thinks is appropriate. By completely negating a bot's influence we forget the see if we're actually adjusting the payout to what is appropriate or not. What ends up happening is a guy like me that wants to get what has coming to him uses a bot to adjust his payout to be proportionate to his effort. Here's an example:
I spend several hours in the sun to make sure no one gets my prime spot for taking a sunset photo. I sit and wait in the AZ heat and sun for hours with no shade with my camera that I really can't afford. I finally get a series of photos that I post on steem thinking people will appreciate with some upvotes. I notice that I'm not getting upvotes. Why? I have no followers and I have mostly no steem power compared to anyone else. I get a voting bot to help me out and push the vote up so more people will see it and so I can get paid for the hours I spent in the sun.
@grumpycat comes along and wipes it out down to $5. $5 for hours in the sun.
I get @grumpycat is trying to change the community and hit the voting bots, but voting bots and their management don't care. The only ones getting hurt are content creators. Voting bots will survive, but we suffer and die. It's not voting bots killing us. It's @grumpycat.
my brand new post wasn't downvoted ... If I got a comment that said don't use particulate bots I would listen. Especially if the self upvote of $40 was given to me as an upvote with a warning comment
Nice post!
Thanks for this!
Upvoted :D
RIPPLE XRP WILL POSSIBLY REACH 13000 THIS YEAR per COIN IN MY OPINION 🚀 let's Hodl together.
RIPPLE XRP WILL POSSIBLY REACH 13000 THIS YEAR per COIN IN MY OPINION 🚀 let's Hodl together.
RIPPLE XRP WILL POSSIBLY REACH 13000 THIS YEAR per COIN IN MY OPINION 🚀 let's Hodl together.
RIPPLE XRP WILL POSSIBLY REACH 13000 THIS YEAR per COIN IN MY OPINION 🚀 let's Hodl together.
RIPPLE XRP WILL POSSIBLY REACH 13000 THIS YEAR per COIN IN MY OPINION 🚀 let's Hodl together.
He's the hero Steemit needs right now, but not the one it deserves.
why do you say that? what do you mean not the one it deserves?
Chill, it's just a dialog from Batman.
LOL, just imagine it like this:
"When the bat-signals glow,
The Grumpy-Bat says NO."
Should that not be the Cat Signal?
"Why so serious?"
hehe not sure if you are being funny as well, but to clarify it was a joke my friend ;) Cat signal for a Grumpy Cat, makes sense no?
Oh ho ... missed the reference lol. thanks yesaye. Dam marvel movies have me forgetting my batman lines :p
No probs dahlsom, we fall so that we can learn to pick ourselves up! ;)
we are full of shit... 💩
Post-promoting at the last minute is not usually beneficial. In my opinion though, it's a decentralized system and for as long as we don't hack into their algorhythm, we are free to observe how the system works and maximize the use of it. On other social media, people hire promoters to increase their 'likes' and shares. People create many dummy accounts and email adresses to help make videos viral for example. -But it's their freedom to do that. Celebrities, for example can pay people for more likes on yT as 'investment'. The only difference here is we use bots and they're accessible to any member following their rules.
Although other social media doesn’t have a reward mechanic built into it, you’re not taking away from other people by using it.
The main thing here is that, on a social network, content is king. If people quickly learn that they can game the system with terrible content plus bots it will - drive new users away as all they see is awful stuff riding high and draw away rewards from those who are actually putting the effort in.
It’s nice to think that the network is self-governing within its own mechanics, but if you take your hands off the wheel and start to drift off the road, you have to put them on it again and enforce a correction.
The issue is, (as I see it) that there is already a promotion mechanism within Steem. It exists so that when people come to actually advertise something, it burns STEEM for the good of everyone who holds it. The idea of post promotion was, yeah, you can pay to get eyes on your content, but it has to be good for you to recoup your cost and promoted content isn't at the expense of the users, it is to all of their benefit. The bid bot system pays someone for having their own content promoted. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
That's a good point. I think @fourfourfun is right saying "content is king". That's the beauty of it! You get paid for promoting your content with bid bots. -But it doesn't mean anyone can get away with posting a blank page (or random letters) and paying a robot to vote it for easy money. I would flag it if I see one. -A video won't go viral if there's just static in it. No matter how many promoters get paid. -There's still a natural law of society (normal human behavior) governing these. Gumpy, I think, just goes to the frontline, like the first line of defense for abuse. What I'm saying is it's a good project. It helps reduce abuse so that the reward pool won't be 'raped'. Maximizing the use of the system doesn't mean abusing it, you know because real people read posts. Content is king. - That's right.
Yes, keep it real and organic.
Bots are NOT human, and cannot really write or create.
Keep rockin,
@steemrockin
wow amazing.
yes agree with your opnion.
@qami
Great idea!
Hi~ goof post and interesting
While your heart might be in the right place and I certainly can't stop you, I do want to take the time to say, I do not appreciate the spirit or actions you are taking. I do support the idea that you are passionate on the platform. I feel this behavior is every bit as bad for my investment and the occassional shit post making money from voting bots, or your own upvotes on comments.
@whatsup
I feel that his intent may be in the right place as well but think that his efforts would be better directed at Steemit Inc and the Witnesses by encouraging a change to the in-built functionality of the platform itself. It should be able to self-police all users via an equitable rule set that applies to everyone, irrespective of status, SP amount, etc. That would be the ideal change on a holistic level.
People are self-policing right now, what sort of change are you proposing?
Self-policing is problematic because it's unwritten law. Newbies can get penalized for doing things that they don't necessarily know are wrong, and that seem to be legitimate and OK.
It's ridiculous to expect every new user to learn an unwritten set of rules that are enforced by various community whales and their bots.
While most automated down-voting is targeting larger accounts and is done with good intention, the better approach would be to set up community guidelines for what actions are and are not appropriate, and modify the code where possible to prevent inappropriate actions from taking place to begin with.
Yeah, a lot of stuff on this platform is not self-explanatory, so newbies can come in without knowing how stuff works and get burned. It can be a bit uninviting.
Be a normal human and don't try to shill bid your post and @grumpycat would go to sleep. He is only awake because a group of youtube shills have appeared on steemit producing shit content and gaming the reward pool. This is how the community reacts to shills.
I don't think you know what the word shill means.
Yup, I am sure you are the smarter of the two of us. That's why I understand and you don't get it.
As @weaselhouse noted in his response, self-policing is counter productive as it imposes a set of rules onto Steemit which the platform itself does not uphold or expect users to abide by.
For example, many users complain about self voting abuse but it's permitted by the platform. So until Steemit stops allowing it, then complaining about it is inconsequential. The founders themselves acknowledged its propensity as a feature to be abused in the Steem White Paper, where it's said: "...each individual voter has incentive to vote for themselves at the expense of the larger community goal." And here we are today, two years later and self voting is still an issue.
In reference to @grumpycat's initiative, it appears to be predicated upon a desire to root out users that engage in reward pool abuse, with an emphasis on targeting those users and voting services that seek/offer upvotes 3.5 days after a post is published. The problem with this is that Steemit itself allows upvotes on posts up to day 7. And there are some voting services that are manually operated and thus have backlogs - a user may pay for a vote on day 2 but not receive it until day 4 or 5, for example.
As the saying goes, "Don't hate the player, hate the game." There are no doubt users that play the game here, but they are doing so within the rules of the platform. So for wide reaching and constructive changes to be implemented, compliance initiatives such as what Grumpy Cat is engaging in are better enforced by being coded into future iterations of Steemit itself. In this manner, the updated rules of the game apply to all users equitably. And that requires buy in from Steemit Inc and the Witnesses. That is who Grumpy Cat and others should be engaging for reform.
I feel like witnesses are reluctant to speak their mind because steemit inc has such a huge stake that it would take just one click to vote any of them out . It's an intimidation game, even if not directly perceived as such.
I can't think of any other reason for witnesses to be so passive on these issues.
If there was ever a time for Witnesses to speak up, it's now.
Steem has broken out above its previous all time highs and momentum is bullish to kick off 2018. However, for that to be sustained, constructive improvements to this platform will have to be implemented. It is after all the prevailing proof of concept for the steem blockchain, though that may soon change with the introduction of smart media tokens.
I assume that is Grumpy Cat's intention, among others pursuing similar initiatives. Ultimately though, the reform has to come from the top and not from self policing efforts led by different whales with varying points of view on what users should and should not do. Their intent may be sound, but the execution isn't in the long run.
Hopefully SMTs and Communities will break up the ability for large stakeholders to create such drama.
Agreed and upvoted
I think I understand what you are trying to do, on the other hand do you think that mathematically this is a good thing to do? I mean you are doing this because the reward pool is being drained by people who are using up vote posts in a way that hurts others right? But the way I see it, I might be wrong , is X person invests 500 SBD on 5 upvote posts, now he gets a return on this which gives him say a 50 % profit that would make the amount he gets to be 750 SBD (about say $4,000.00 to just put a price on it) you then downvote these posts for the same amounts. So we have $4,000.00 the upvote bot gave which are lost and you also lose $4,000.00 without any curation reward (I am not sure if a downvote doesn't give curation rewards) but what I am getting at is that both of you lose, and I don't see how this helps the reward pool. I think you would do the community a better service by upvoting say 200 posts with a 3.75 SBD vote.
I always try things out, I tried 3 upvote posts, I lost on one and got a 20% profit on the other two, now I know upvote bots are here to stay, but personally I don't like them that much, of course that is my opinion I respect whatever everyone else thinks.
The reward pool stays the same. If he downvotes $4,000 dollars worth, that isn't taken out of the reward pool, it just means $4,000 is divided equally among all the other posts. Think of upvotes more as shares of the reward pool than actual $. So, if the reward pool was $1,000,000 it will stay fixed. If every post and comment got downvoted to 0 except yours, you would get the full $1,000,000, no matter how small your upvote was.
cute!!
it's good!